delcyros
Tech Sergeant
He-162 A2 for me.
best german jet
- Thread starter ScOoTeR1992
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I have edited his poll and removed the Natter.
Velius
Airman 1st Class
This is true but nevertheless- it was a german jet. It never saw combat but it did have a few tests flights. Also, didn't the manufacturer's of the jets mentioned have future plans in desgin and development? In a sense weren't all their aircraft "prototypes"?
8)
ToughOmbre
Senior Master Sergeant
The aircraft had a few test flights. Do we know how it would have been with a full bomb load under combat condtions?
A Prototype and test bed aircraft such as this one can not be considered best because we simply do not know.
Me 262, Arado Ar 234, and He 162 entered served and can be compared.
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
A document labelled "Flugleistungen der He-162 mit 003R" dating from february, 9th, 1945 give the estimated (calculated, not test flown) performance changes of the He-162 with BMW-003R.
The BMW-003R is a coupled BMW-003 with a BMW 109-718 rocket engine. The jet unit is deprived by about 3% of it´s power to drive the fuel pumps of the rocket unit. The total thrust output of this unit is 775 Kp + 1250 Kp, limited to three minutes (=4.463 lbs). Rocket fuel is about 700 Kg (180-320 sec., depending on the choosen thrust rating), enough to use full thrust rating and achieving an ceiling of over 10.000m (max. possible: 11.700m in three minutes).
A single He-162 M (prototype) was equipped with the BMW-003R in Vienne and appears to have been tested before VE-day. Whether or not this includes flights is not sure. The drastic weight increase leads to a substantially higher wingload and thus higher stall speed, lower climb rate and longer take off run compared to the normal he-162 A.
Maximum take off weight: 3475 Kg (with rocket fuel)
maximum take off weight: 2.775 Kg (without rocket fuel)
take off run :1470m (without rocket assistence)
take off run: 482m (with rocket assistence)
initial climb: 11m/s (without rocket assistence, compare 18 m/s A-2)
initial climb: 50-80m/s (with rocket assistence, depending on altitude)
There are no estimates given on acceleration and top speed in the document but with hindsight we are able to estimate that acceleration is better than in the Me-163 and top speed with more than twice the thrust avaiable will likely result in encountering it´s crit Mach figure at any given altitude.
The BMW-003R is a coupled BMW-003 with a BMW 109-718 rocket engine. The jet unit is deprived by about 3% of it´s power to drive the fuel pumps of the rocket unit. The total thrust output of this unit is 775 Kp + 1250 Kp, limited to three minutes (=4.463 lbs). Rocket fuel is about 700 Kg (180-320 sec., depending on the choosen thrust rating), enough to use full thrust rating and achieving an ceiling of over 10.000m (max. possible: 11.700m in three minutes).
A single He-162 M (prototype) was equipped with the BMW-003R in Vienne and appears to have been tested before VE-day. Whether or not this includes flights is not sure. The drastic weight increase leads to a substantially higher wingload and thus higher stall speed, lower climb rate and longer take off run compared to the normal he-162 A.
Maximum take off weight: 3475 Kg (with rocket fuel)
maximum take off weight: 2.775 Kg (without rocket fuel)
take off run :1470m (without rocket assistence)
take off run: 482m (with rocket assistence)
initial climb: 11m/s (without rocket assistence, compare 18 m/s A-2)
initial climb: 50-80m/s (with rocket assistence, depending on altitude)
There are no estimates given on acceleration and top speed in the document but with hindsight we are able to estimate that acceleration is better than in the Me-163 and top speed with more than twice the thrust avaiable will likely result in encountering it´s crit Mach figure at any given altitude.
Velius
Airman 1st Class
Ah, I see what your talking about. Just thought I'd bring it up anyway. Thanks8)
Hi Delcyros,
>The total thrust output of this unit is 775 Kp + 1250 Kp, limited to three minutes (=4.463 lbs). Rocket fuel is about 700 Kg (180-320 sec., depending on the choosen thrust rating), enough to use full thrust rating and achieving an ceiling of over 10.000m (max. possible: 11.700m in three minutes).
Thanks a lot - I had been looking for fuel consumption figures for the BMW 003R for a while, considering the figures given by von Gersdorff et al. too high. I'll have to check whether this impression is correct - maybe I simply underestimated the amount of extra fuel to be carried by the He 162.
Does the report detail how the rocket fuel was stored? The He 162 couldn't use its full design fuel capacity for centre of gravity reasons, so later a smaller main tank was installed, but of course it wouldn't be possible to use the saved space for rocket fuel for just the centre of gravity considerations that prevented its use for fuel - unless other changes were made too, of course.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
>The total thrust output of this unit is 775 Kp + 1250 Kp, limited to three minutes (=4.463 lbs). Rocket fuel is about 700 Kg (180-320 sec., depending on the choosen thrust rating), enough to use full thrust rating and achieving an ceiling of over 10.000m (max. possible: 11.700m in three minutes).
Thanks a lot - I had been looking for fuel consumption figures for the BMW 003R for a while, considering the figures given by von Gersdorff et al. too high. I'll have to check whether this impression is correct - maybe I simply underestimated the amount of extra fuel to be carried by the He 162.
Does the report detail how the rocket fuel was stored? The He 162 couldn't use its full design fuel capacity for centre of gravity reasons, so later a smaller main tank was installed, but of course it wouldn't be possible to use the saved space for rocket fuel for just the centre of gravity considerations that prevented its use for fuel - unless other changes were made too, of course.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
Your right that it didn't become operational, but that is because Germany lost the War... The Ho 229 had greater potential, but the ME 262 is most definitely the best when you add in the factors
Could have, should have, would have. Does not change the point that it did not happen. An aircraft that never saw its potential for whatever reasons, still did not see its potential.
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davebender
1st Lieutenant
I agree.
Unlike other WWII era jets the Me-262 was fully combat ready and in mass production by April 1945. Only a few months too late to matter.
Unlike other WWII era jets the Me-262 was fully combat ready and in mass production by April 1945. Only a few months too late to matter.
Grateful nephewj
Recruit
- 4
- Jul 19, 2016
Just joined and my forum name has everything to do with my uncle who was one of two 52nd FG Mustang pilots who shot down the lone Arado 234 lost in air combat. Uncle C and his wingman both hit the Arado, but we never heard the whole story until just before his death in 2010.
Thorlifter
Captain
Welcome to the forum.
Two things.
1. You should put this in a thread of it's own. Mods, can you move it?
2. Lone AR-234 lost in combat? I believe many were lost in combat, some by fighters, some by flak, some were attacked as they took off. Please clarify if I'm wrong. I saw on another forum there were 14 AR-234 combat claims, the first was from a Tempest in the RAF in Dec 1944.
Two things.
1. You should put this in a thread of it's own. Mods, can you move it?
2. Lone AR-234 lost in combat? I believe many were lost in combat, some by fighters, some by flak, some were attacked as they took off. Please clarify if I'm wrong. I saw on another forum there were 14 AR-234 combat claims, the first was from a Tempest in the RAF in Dec 1944.
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Yes several where shot down. Not just one. Most I believe where during landing though.
