Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
The Meteor saw action from 1944 onward, the Swalbe saw action from 1944 onward and the Spatz saw action before the end of the war in May '45.Only one jet fighter aircraft was fully combat ready by early May 1945.
What engines would Me-262 have in 1950? Will it have HG III wing with 45 degree sweep? 1950 Me-262 would almost certainly have MG213 revolver cannon and gyro stabilized gun sight.
If WWII had carried on for another 5 years what would Allied jets look like. What engines, RR Avons, Metrovick Saphires, GE J47s. What guns, lightweight 1,000 rpm Mohlins Hispanos or Colt Mk12s. What gunsights, radar ranging stabilised gunsights. What wings Miles M52 razor edged trans sonic wing. All these were running in prototype form at the end of or just after the war and at the rate of wartime development would have been in service well before 1950.
You cant just glibly say the Me262 would have been a wonder plane without saying what 5 years of development would do to its likely opponents.
I don't think so; after WWII the cold war started and there was no reason to slow down the technical evolution.
cimmex
P-80 easily, no question about that.
I don't think so; after WWII the cold war started and there was no reason to slow down the technical evolution.
cimmex
Don't forget to include the RLM equation.
It states anything with a swastika or black cross has its performance automatically increased by 15% when compared to anything without !
Gustav Lachmann had the design and applied for the patent before Handley-Page, who were able to successfully file a patent while Lachmann wasn't.full leading edge slats, a British invention but it was its use on the 262 that caught peoples attention, it directly influenced the f86 and are still being used to this day..
The He162 was not a reliable platform and can be considered more of an anomaly of military aviation born of desperation than an avenue to follow. In otherwords, it should have never been built, let alone put into combat.What were the best low/ medium speed dog fighters, i think the he 162 followed by the Vampire 1.
The Ar234 and it's variants were high-speed bombers and recon units. Their only defense was to run like hell and in order to achieve a higher speed, some even had their fixed rear defensive cannon removed. There is no way one would be able to dogfight or do anything other than haul-ass in a straight line.The Ar 234c was a beast, with a total of 7040 pounds of thrust, infact if you reduce its fuel load to match the range of the Meteor MK 4(did not fly until after war) it has the same power to weight ratio, the mk 4 had a ROC of 7900 fpm, 234c had top speed of 548 or 538 mph, range of 800 to 900 miles bomb load of 4400 pnds, adcanced break chute, rato units, drop tanks, pressurized cabin and some very sophisticated equipment in the cockpit. this aircraft was actually being used operationally by evaluation units when the war ended, this and the 262 made a coo combo, my other fav combo was the P51D and A26 invader, now thats cool
If people want to put a "what-if" scenario together between postwar Allied jets and German jets, then perhaps use the HGIII "V-Tail" version (or the Ta183, Ho229 or P.1101 for that matter) against the F-86 or the MiG-15.Oh, the 262 with its top speed, energy retention, dive capability, and fire power(one variant used in combat pair of mk 103 30 mm cannons along with 2x 108s and 2x20 mm cannons) would be the best jet to take on the MIG 15 but still would be no match.
Don't forget to include the RLM equation.
It states anything with a swastika or black cross has its performance automatically increased by 15% when compared to anything without !
Gustav Lachmann had the design and applied for the patent before Handley-Page, who were able to successfully file a patent while Lachmann wasn't.
Regarding the slats on the F-86: the technology was no revelation and American aircraft companies were well aware of the concept and usage (Curtiss, for example) before the Me262
The He162 was not a reliable platform and can be considered more of an anomaly of military aviation born of desperation than an avenue to follow. In otherwords, it should have never been built, let alone put into combat.
The Ar234 and it's variants were high-speed bombers and recon units. Their only defense was to run like hell and in order to achieve a higher speed, some even had their fixed rear defensive cannon removed. There is no way one would be able to dogfight or do anything other than haul-ass in a straight line.
The Me262 was designed with the prospect of a pressurized cockpit (look at the cross-section of the cockpit/fuselage and see the "tub") but it was never implemented.
If people want to put a "what-if" scenario together between postwar Allied jets and German jets, then perhaps use the HGIII "V-Tail" version (or the Ta183, Ho229 or P.1101 for that matter) against the F-86 or the MiG-15.
The "6-gun" Me262 mentioned (Me262A-1a/U1) was a one-off version to try and increase range against the bombers, while retaining defensive armament. It's performance wasn't impressive enough to make any others. The other "6-gun" version was the Me262A-1a/U5 packing 6 Mk108 cannon...and again, not impressive.
I think that the Mk108 was enough of a devastating weapon to the point that the rule of "less is more" should have applied. Only two cannon would have been sufficient and the weight savings from two less cannon would allow for a higher ammunition capacity. All it took was a single 30mm Minengeschoss round to tear a wing from a P-51 or devestate the cockpit of a B-17.
As far as this Jet-versus-Jet scenario goes...it's always going to be a whole world of speculation and the one thing I always see popping up, is the P-80 versus (insert jet here). The problem is, the P-80 (in it's early production form) was only in the European theater in limited numbers and while I would like to think it would have been "cool" to see it tangle with the Me262, in all honesty, it would have come up short against the more experienced and heavier armed Me262. The only salvation for a P-80 pilot would be his ability to outfly the Me262 and definitely keep his ass out of the Me262's Revi.
So if we're going to explore the realm of "what-ifs", why not make it interesting and include ALL of the actual armed WWII (September 1939 to May1945) jets into this scenario:
P-59
P-80
Me262
He162
He280
Meteor
Vampire
All aircraft have a record of killing their pilots...there are NO exceptions. The Spatz was a design that was rushed to the front lines from it's inception due to deperation, not aerodynamic advancement. No other airforce on the planet copied it's design or considered it for any role...it was a dead end.He 162 unreliable platform?? Why ? Becauce thre were fatal accidents the First 6 monts of its existence? P80was killing its pilots 2 years after its First flights
Better spend more time reading about the machines you speak of, reducing weight also enhances speed.Removing the 20mm guns of ar234 increased its speed? They were causing no drug. They were removed just because were not useful
Ar234C was also having two forward firing 20mm.
Ar 234 able to fly only in strait Line????? Brown loved the plane. Which is your scource for this claim? And the c with almost double thrust was even better
I am going to assume that you mis-read my statement, because nowhere did I say the P-80 could "out fly" the Me262. I said the P-80 would "come up short" in a contest.About the P80 vs 262. Since P80, as you say, could outfly the 262, why you say it would come short against the 262?