Best Jet of the War?

• Dec 17, 2004

• #201

A

Anonymous

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DerAdlerIstGelandet said:

I will agree with you that the V-1 and V-2 took up needless time and effort and Hitler was stuck on having his vengence weapons. So I will agree with you that Germanys desisions did hurt the Jet projects. I will also agree with you that US industy was larger. And if you look at the fact that the Germans were working on jet engines in 1936 then yes I would agree that time was not a factor, however what I meant by German scientists not having time is that basically politics put a time limit on how long it took for them to put out a working product. They did not have the sufficient time to put out better products. In the latter parts of the war Germany was putting out inovative designs that just were not quite ready yet and that was because Hitler wanted them in the air immediatly. Now if they had had sufficient time would these products have helped their war effort? Probably not. I do however think that given sufficient time they could have turned out aircraft of great value as you said like a Mig-15 type of aircraft. For example just look at the Ho-229.

Click to expand...

Well, I think it is true that the engineers and scientists of all sides were under great pressure to make accomplishments quickly. The stress upon the Manhatten project team was increadible. Nervous breakdowns and heart-attacks were not uncommon on all sides.

What amazes me however, is the degree to which inter-service politics were allowed to hurt both the German and Japanese war efforts. For example, in about 1941 or so Von Braun's team had developed a very nice system for launching rocket bombardments from U-Boats. However the German Navy rejected this as it was an "Army project". These bombardments, directed against key US and British ports and shipyards, could have had a significant impact on the Allied war effort.

Likewise, in several instances the IJN refused to cooperate with the IJA. If such things had happened to such a significant degree with the British or American forces, heads would have rolled quickly. Can you imagine if the USN had refused to conduct the Doolittle raid because it was an Army operation?

=S=

Lunatic

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #202

D

Darkstalker

Airman

18

0

Dec 3, 2004

Mexico City

Another thing that we sometimes forget, is that Germany couldn't develop in an open way because of the Versailles Treaty, so they started looking for new strategies and techonlogies that will help them in a new war.
But they lacked of materials and manufacturing places to create and develop designs with resources as the Allies did. Thats why there are a lot of designs of weapons and aircfraft that today will look ridiculous and with no future, but in that time were worth of taking a chance and try to develop the best of them with a limited quantity of resources and time.
And despite of their efforts to develop serious weapons and strategy programs they could never match the Allies, mainly the Americans that had a lot of resources, and time to develop and fix all the projects and problems that this showed.
They had with huge industrial and technological structure, that had more resources to work with and that never faced a post war evironment like Germany did.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #203

A

Anonymous

Guest

Germany pretty much openly ignored the Treaty of Versailles from about 1935 on (after Hitler assumed full power). About the only part they did honor was the limits to gun size on their ships, as they were concerned the British might enforce the treaty by having the RN shell their shipyards. Even so, the turrets were designed to allow the guns to be upgraded to 15" at a later date.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #204

Erich

the old Sage

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ah did we not all agree some months ago the jet that was the best was the one best suited for it's task; whether it be a fighter, bomber killer or recon version ?

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #205

the lancaster kicks ass

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can't remeber

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• Thread starter
• #206

cheddar cheese

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I think I recall.

Erich, you think the Blitz was the best dont you?

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #207

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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The Versailles Treaty really was a joke. Mostly because the Allies allowed Hitler to openly ignore it. The problem with sides not taking up projects because it was an "army project" or something like that was a major problem. Had the infrastructure been set up differently many of the German X-planes as some people like to call them may have gotten off the ground and many other projects may have been completed like the U-Boot rockets and soforth. So yes that was a problem. And yes I will say with Erich the Ar-234 Blitz was an awesome aircraft. I dont think the best but awesome.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• Thread starter
• #208

cheddar cheese

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Well it was a very good jet at multi-roleing

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #209

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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I think it was a quite remarkable aircraft and very ahead of its time.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• Thread starter
• #210

cheddar cheese

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Yep. Good speed, a decent payload and for a jet of that time, a very good range. Worked as a recon machine and a light bomber.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #211

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Yeap and she was attractive looking too.

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• Thread starter
• #212

cheddar cheese

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A real beauty 8)

 

• Dec 18, 2004

• #213

Erich

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I cannot compare the blitz with the schwalbe since they provided two differnet types of acitivites. The Arado was superior in the recon role, the 262 as a fighter against bombers if flown in threes

E

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• #214

the lancaster kicks ass

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loving the looks of the blitz myself......

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• #215

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Yeah you can not compare the Blitz with the Schwalbe because they were too different types of aircraft.

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• #216

the lancaster kicks ass

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both looked good................

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• #217

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Yeah that is about the only way one can compare them to one another.

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• Thread starter
• #218

cheddar cheese

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Junkers Ju-287 was a novel jet.

 

• Dec 19, 2004

• #219

DerAdlerIstGelandet

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Yes it was.

Type: Heavy Bomber
Origin: Junkers Flugzeug und Motorenwerks AG
Model: V1 to V3
Crew: V3: Three
First Flight:
Ju 287 V1: August 16, 1944
Ju 287 V2: 1947 by Soviet Union
Number of Flights: V1: 17
Number Produced: 2, (V3) not completed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine:
Ju 287 V1 V2:
Model: Junkers Jumo 004
Type: Turbojets
Number: Four Thrust: 1,980lb (900kg)
Note: Four 2,645lb (1,200kg) thrust Walter 501 takeoff
assistance rockets also mounted.

Ju 287 V3:
Model: BMW 003A
Type: Turbojets
Number: Six Thrust: 1,760lb (800kg)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dimensions:
Span: 65 ft. 11¾ in. (20.11m)
Length:
Ju 287 V1: 60 ft. 0½ in. (18.30m)
Height: N/A
Wing Area: N/A

Weights:
Empty: 12,510kg
Loaded: 20,000kg
Performance:
Maximum speed:
Ju 287 V1: 560km/h (348mph)
Ju 287 V3: 865kn/h (537mph)
Range with max. bombs (est.):
Ju 287 V3: 1585km (985 miles)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Armament:
Two MG 131 in remote control tail barbette.

Bombs: Ju 287 V3
8,818 lb. (4000 kg)

Comments:
One of the strangest Luftwaffe aircraft to ever claw it's way into the air was the Junkers Ju 287. Begun in early 1943, the Ju 287 incorporated many advanced aerodynamic concepts, the most striking being the swept forward wings. This design feature was deemed radical enough to warrent the construction of a testbed aircraft, pictured above. This testbed flew on August 16, 1944. The aircraft was a Frankenstien's monster, pieced together from several diffent aircraft. Included were the nosewheels from two B-24 Liberators, the fuselage of an He 177, mainwheels off a Ju 352, and the tail was constructed of Ju 388 parts.
17 test flights proved the concept to have excellent handling characteristics and would have proven a problem had not the allies overrun the testing airfield, capturing the the V1 and the nearly complete V2. The V2 was flown by the Soviet Union in 1947. The V3 failed to get off the drawing board and would have had several improvements.

 

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• Dec 20, 2004

• #220

the lancaster kicks ass

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Dec 20, 2003

are those figures proven??