Best Pacific Fighter?

kool kitty89 · Apr 16, 2008

The slow roll problems of the P-38 were solved with the introduction of boosed ailerons on the late J models.

The P-38J-25-LO production block also introduced power-boosted ailerons. These consisted of ailerons that were operated by a hydraulically-actuated bell-crank and push-pull rod, making it easier for the pilot to maneuver the airplane at high airspeeds. This boosting system was one of the first applications of powered controls to any fighter, and required only 17 percent of the previous stick forces. The hydraulic aileron booster system vastly improved the roll rate and thereby increased the effectiveness of the P-38 in combat. P-38Js with power-boosted ailerons proved to have the highest roll-rates of any fighter.

But the roll advantage was only at high speeds as seen here: P-38L Roll Chart

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

When the war ended an immdiate stop order went into affect on the P-38 production line.

Went to JoeB's site and through notes attached to the Serial Number list, the last USAAF/ USAF P-38s went away in 1947, at least based on the information listed.

1944 USAAF Serial Numbers (44-001 to 44-30910)

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

syscom3 said:
Who cares what happened after 1945. Anything with a piston engine after that year was obsolescent.

Was it? How about on a carrier as earlier pointed out? Also consider close support roles where jets couldn't support because of fuel consumption. As a front line air-to-air fighter, yes, for some other roles, no.

kool kitty89 · Apr 16, 2008

That what I said. Plus the capability of operating of small/rough airstrips was an advantage as well.

syscom3 · Apr 16, 2008

Hunter368 said:
Big paragragh, LOL.

It does make it tough to read it.

syscom3 · Apr 16, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
Was it? How about on a carrier as earlier pointed out? Also consider close support roles where jets couldn't support because of fuel consumption. As a front line air-to-air fighter, yes, for some other roles, no.

Yes, any piston engined military aircraft after 1946 was on borrowed time. Anything after the late 40's was the exception rather than the rule.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Apr 16, 2008

syscom3 said:
Yes, any piston engined military aircraft after 1946 was on borrowed time. Anything after the late 40's was the exception rather than the rule.

Really?

Then why is the C-130 still being used today?

Edit: I just re-read your post and realized it was about piston aircraft and not prop aircraft.

C-130 is a turbo prob and not a piston aircraft...

Sorry about that sys.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

syscom3 said:
Yes, any piston engined military aircraft after 1946 was on borrowed time. Anything after the late 40's was the exception rather than the rule.

Douglas Skyraider - 1946-1974 - 28 years.

Douglas A-26 (B-26) - 1944-1972 - 28 years.

North American T-28 - 1949 - 1984 - 35 years.

I don't know Sys, with just 2 attack and one trainer I come up with 91 years worth of borrowed time!

How about C-54s, C-119, C-121s, and C-123s - all military transports used well into the jet age?!?!?

Hunter368 · Apr 16, 2008

Joe, you are good. LOL

The Great Gazoo strikes again!

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

Hunter368 said:
Joe, you are good. LOL

The Great Gazoo strikes again!

Thanks!

renrich · Apr 16, 2008

Sorry guys, I am a hunt and peck typist and have not figured out how to do paragraphs on a computer. I apologise. But yes, piston engined AC still had their uses long after WW2. The early jets did not have the short field capabilities of the props plus many could not carry the loads and did not have the range and loiter time and were not as accurate with bombs.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

Oh - and let's not forget this one - first flew in 1945, entered service in 1946....

33 years worth of "borrowed time."

Messy1 · Apr 16, 2008

Although I do not think the Hellcat is the best fighter in the Pacific, I do think it was one of, if not the most important plane in the Pacific. How would things have turned out if the Navy had to fly to the Wildcat until the Corsair was approved for carrier use? I think it was the right plane at the right time. It definitely turned the tide in favor of the Allies in the Pacific air war.

I'm not all that familiar with too masny of the IJN planes other than the Zero.

Messy1 · Apr 16, 2008

I had to go with the P-38. Although as i said, I think the Hellcat was the most vital or important plane. But with the ability to pick when and where you fight, dive in and climb out, Cheddar changed my mind. The P-38 was not always the top in every category, but it close to the top in almost all performance categories.

syscom3 · Apr 16, 2008

FLYBOYJ said:
Douglas Skyraider - 1946-1974 - 28 years.

Douglas A-26 (B-26) - 1944-1972 - 28 years.

North American T-28 - 1949 - 1984 - 35 years.

I don't know Sys, with just 2 attack and one trainer I come up with 91 years worth of borrowed time!

How about C-54s, C-119, C-121s, and C-123s - all military transports used well into the jet age?!?!?

Only three? I thought you could come up with dozens! Sounds like they were an exception to the rule.

Like I said, any piston engined airplane after the 40's was living on borrowed time.

Now tell me what piston engined aircraft were front line bombers or fighters?

BTW, the C119 and C123's were retrofitted with jet engines so as to not be totally useless.

FLYBOYJ · Apr 16, 2008

syscom3 said:
Only three? I thought you could come up with dozens! Sounds like they were an exception to the rule.

No they were the only US combat aircraft in production during the span you gave and look how long all of them served!!! I think you forgot that a major war just ended and no one was really rushing to produce aircraft in the capacity like WW2...

syscom3 said:
Like I said, any piston engined airplane after the 40's was living on borrowed time.

And the "three" I showed were far from that "exception to the rule." If a doctor told me I was on borrowed time and then lived another 30 years, I'd say he was full of sh*t!

syscom3 said:
Now tell me what piston engined aircraft were front line bombers or fighters?

For the most part, none but B-29, B-50 - both front line until the B-36 came along, and yes, it did have jet engines but was still a recip, as did the C-119 and the C-123 which were fitted with jets because there was a short field requirement placed on these aircraft after they were initially developed. They flew very well without the jet engines and I even seen a C-123 in operation at Mojave without the jet engines. It's owner removed them because they drank too much fuel.

The point here is your statement about recips being on borrowed times was just not true.

BTW - The TBF Avenger served into the late 1950s....

The last Corsair rolled off the assembly line in 1952....

The last B-25s left the USAF in the early 1960.....

The last B-29s were retired in 1960........

In fact the USAF did not become an "All Jet Bomber Force" until 1960.

So let's see - "any piston engined airplane after the 40's was living on borrowed time" It took 14 years for the last of the recip bombers to retire - boy that's really borrowed time!

Oh I forgot a few...

AJ-1 Savage - 1948 - 1962

PV-2 Harpoon - served in reserve units till 1955

Martin P5M - 1946 - 1968

Douglas C-124 - 1950 - 1961

Convair C-131 1954 - 1979 for the USN, 1984 for the USAFRES

Grumman SA-16 Albatross - 1947 - 1972

But yea, they were all on borrowed time!

parsifal · Apr 16, 2008

What about the revamped Mustangs I'm darned if i can remeber the name, but iut was used in COIN ops.

Mosquitoes were not retired until 1955, 14 years after service entry. Fireflies were used until 1955 as well. Furies until 1955, or later. Then there were the gannets, the S2G trackers, the caribous....and the list goes on. Concede the point, it aint worth it....

SoD Stitch · Apr 16, 2008

parsifal said:
What about the revamped Mustangs I'm darned if i can remeber the name, but iut was used in COIN ops.

Are you talking about the turboprop Cavaliers? They looked kinda funny with a big turbine exhaust sticking out of the side, but they were good airplanes.

kool kitty89 · Apr 16, 2008

The P-2 had 2x J34 jet boosters added, but its main powerplants were the 2 R-3350's.

For pure fighters (escort, intercept, sweeps) this was certainly the case, but for bombers it took a little longer to get online. And for transports, patroll ceaft, support/ dedicated attack a/c, and the ability to operate in minimal or improvised airfields the piston engine craft stayed quite a bit longer.

syscom3 · Apr 16, 2008

None of those piston engined aircraft were front line for long. They were in the stop gap role at best.

In fact most of them ended up in Reserve or NG units while the jets were rolled out and produced.

With the exception of USN dedicated aircraft (due to early jet engine issues) name one piston engined fighter or bomber that was designed and built AFTER the 2nd world war ended.

Cargo and Maritime patrol dont count..... only fighter and bombers.

Best Pacific Fighter?

Best Pacific Fighter?

Lockheed P-38 Lightning

Mitsubishi A6M Zero

Chance-Vought F4U Corsair

Curtiss P-40 Warhawk

Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa

Grumman F6F Hellcat

Kawanishi N1K2/J Shiden

Senior Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Senior Master Sergeant

Pacific Historian

Pacific Historian

Private Chemtrail Disperser

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Tech Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Chief Master Sergeant

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Master Sergeant

Master Sergeant

Pacific Historian

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Colonel

Banned

Senior Master Sergeant

Pacific Historian

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