I agree the P-47 should be in the poll but what kind of impact did it make. I still think the biggest impact was made by the Hellcat and the Dauntless.
Best Pacific Fighter?
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- #62
cheddar cheese
Major General
I only put the ones in that made a real impact - The P-47 and Ki-84 were good planes but the Ki-84 was not as good as the Shiden and the P-47 wasnt really used in the PTO as much or with as much effect as it was in the ETO (I think)
The P-47 was a great plane none the less.
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- #64
cheddar cheese
Major General
Yup, theres no denying that fact.
A
Anonymous
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cheddar cheese said:
Why do you think the "Frank" was not as good as the "George"? Below is a comparison of the first combat model of the Frank with the 2nd generation George (low wing, improved engine, etc...):
Nakajima Ki-84-1a "Frank" -
Maximum Speed: 392 mph at 20,080 feet (6,120 meters)
Cruising Speed: 277 mph (no altitude figure available)
Service Cieling: 34,450 feet (10,500 meters)
Climb: 5 mins 54 seconds to 16,400 feet (5000 meters)
Range: 1347 miles
Armament: 2 x 12.7 mm Ho-103 machine guns in the nose and 2 x Ho-5 20mm cannon in the wings.
Bombload: 2 x 550 lbs bombs
Production Numbers: 3514 total (1670 delivered in 1944, probably all Ki-84-1a's and maybe a few -1b's)
Kawanishi N1K2 "George" -
Maximum Speed: 369 mph @ 18,373 feet (5,600 meters)
Cruising Speed: 230 mph @ 6,562 feet (2,000 meters)
Service Cieling: 35,300 feet (10,760 meters)
Climb: 7 mins 22 secs to 19685 feet (6,000 meters)
Range: 1069 miles
Armament: 4 x Type 99-II mod 3 20mm cannon in the wings
Bombload: 2 x 550 lbs bombs (a special model could carry 4 x 550 lbs bombs, but its performance was lower).
Production numbers: ~410 (note: 1435 N1K's were built, about 1000 were the earlier N1K1 variant, with mid fuselage wing and inferior performance).
As you can see, the first combat model of the Ki-84 "Frank" is superior to the second generation N1K2 "George" in every catagory except service cieling, and even there it's not that much inferior. Both planes suffered mechanical problems, the Frank probably less so than the George. The George's Type 99-II-3 20mm cannon hit a bit harder, but the RoF is significantly lower than that of the Ho-5, making the 2 x 20mm of the Frank have about the volume of fire of 3 of the George's 20mm.
Improvments in the Ki-84 "Frank" resulted in the -1b model armed with 4 x Ho-5 20mm cannon (2 in the nose, 2 in the wings) and improved performance (top speed ~409 mph). This was followed by the Ki-84-II model, which utilized more wood in the construction (Japan was suffering shortages of alluminum and steel by this point) which had a top speed of 416 mph. In each rendition (I and II generations) there were the C versions which sported the Ho-155 30mm cannon - it is unknown if this version ever actually saw combat or not. The "Frank" also sported some of the best armor of any Japanese fighter, including a 13mm plate protecting the pilot, which is about the thickest plate I've seen on any WWII fighter.
To say the Frank did not have an impact is totally false. This was the most feared Japanese fighter for the Allied pilots at Okinawa and those fighting over Korea. There was a saying at the Okinawa USAAF field for when they spotted a fast moving fighter at high altituded (20k+), "Forget it, it's a Frank" because the P-51 could not be scrambled for a successful intercept, if they were not already up and patrolling, there was no point in launching them.
Finally, the production numbers show that the Frank was far more significant than the George. The George was the best IJN fighter of WWII, the Frank was the best IJA fighter of WWII, but the Frank had more impact.
If you're going to have a poll about "The best WWII PTO fighter", and you are going to include any Japanese planes as choices, the Ki-84 "Frank" has to be included!
=S=
Lunatic
A
Anonymous
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DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Sure, these were Navy planes, and they got the glory because they won the carrier battles which happened before the Air Force really got into the PTO. But the P-51, and P-47 played a signficant roll in the last year to 18 months of the war, especially over Burma, China, and Korea - areas vital to the Japanese war machine.
The poll question is "best" not "most significant" fighter in the PTO right? So these planes, which were there and saw combat, should be included.
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Lunatic
Well then you make the polls and you can put them in there okay, dont worry cheddar I think the poll is alright.
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- #68
cheddar cheese
Major General
Thanks 8)
You cant go on how good a plane is by stats, just look at the He-162, good on paper but a pile of smouldering shit in the sky
You cant go on how good a plane is by stats, just look at the He-162, good on paper but a pile of smouldering shit in the sky
I agree.
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
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- Dec 20, 2003
smouldering being the right word given it's a wodden jet plane 
Thats true it was made out of wood but so were a lot of the jet aircraft. The Ho-229 was the same.
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- #72
cheddar cheese
Major General
Wasnt that mainly due to lack of resources though?
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
Stealth, weight, materials, damage resistance...
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- #74
cheddar cheese
Major General
But also due to lack of resources yes?
(PS: post more - I wanna make it to 6000 tonight!)
(PS: post more - I wanna make it to 6000 tonight!)
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Anonymous
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cheddar cheese said:
The Frank was an excellent plane. Most sources will agree it was the best operational Japanese fighter, and the most significant or the last year of the war as well.
I'm just presenting info Chedder. I'll make some polls when I'm caught up on this board.
=S=
Lunatic
GermansRGeniuses
Tech Sergeant
cheddar cheese said:
Yeh, that's why I mentioned materials...
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- #77
cheddar cheese
Major General
Didnt see that bit
RG, I have read many sources thast say the Shiden was the best Jap fighter...
RG, I have read many sources thast say the Shiden was the best Jap fighter...
It was mostly do to recourses, there was more abundant timber than anything else for the Germans.
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- #79
cheddar cheese
Major General
Although it has to be the worst material possible for use on a jet.
A
Anonymous
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cheddar cheese said:Didnt see that bit
RG, I have read many sources thast say the Shiden was the best Jap fighter...
The George was probably the best IJN fighter. The Frank was the best IJA fighter. Search on the Ki-84 Frank and read for yourself.
BTW: Read Sabaru Sakia's comments on the George, he thought it was a pile of crap.
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