Best Pacific Fighter?

[MP-Willow]

Evenglider, Yes all that of the LB-30 is true. People forget that it like the PBY were greated for the British first, well the PBY got its name from them as did the Liberater. The B-24 was more the production m,odel that USAAC started to use as it was needed.

Keep all the nice pics coming

 

[cheddar cheese]

Heres a nice shot of the B-24 in your sig in flight

 

[evangilder]

Nice!

 

[Viper]

i think the corsair rules everything else out on the list...
thats a nice shot of a 24

 

[cheddar cheese]

I went for the -38. Shot down more Japs than any other plane...and so what if thats only cos it was around longer, It was well advanced for it time...Im surprised its ahead of the F6F in the poll actually.

 

[Nonskimmer]

i think the corsair rules everything else out on the list...
thats a nice shot of a 24

I wholeheartedly agree with both of those statements. 8)

 

[R Leonard]

Away, way back on Sat Dec 4, 04 at 10:39 am
the lancaster kicks ass posted:

"the B-25 never landed on the carrier, it only took off from there........."

Huh? then what are these guys doing aboard USS Shangri-La on November 15, 1944?

PBJ-1, BuNo 35277 (x USAAF B-25H 43-4700) piloted by Lieut. Comdr. Syd Bottomley traps aboard
in picture 1, taxis out of the arrestor gear in picture 2 and is readied for catapult launch in picture 3.

Regards,

Rich

7 Feb - replaced original shots with somewhat smaller versions, I didn't realize the first ones would be
so big. This should help the load time . . . oh yeah, much better.

RL

 

[R Leonard]

And also way back on Mon Jan 10, 2005 at 11:11 pm
lesofprimus posted:

"Funny how many Shiden pilots racked up kills over the invincible F4U......."

Really? How many? Both the F6F and the F4U had opportunities to engage the N1K. 1945 official USN results of combat for each type:

F6F vs N1K series - 28 to 0
F4U or FG vs N1K series - 7 to 0
So, the way the USN figures it, 35 Shinden's shot down to no losses.

You need to take care with Japanese claims. Essentially, if they shot at a plane and then lost sight of it, it was considered shot down. By 1944 most all USN claims were verified through gun camera film.

Regards,

Rich

 

[Nonskimmer]

I've never seen those PBJ-1 pictures before. That's pretty cool! 8)

 

[cheddar cheese]

Hell yeah, GREAT pictures RL! 8)

 

[MP-Willow]

RL, Where did you find the pictures? Is there any story to go with them?

P-38 why not! It was there a long time and did a lot for the Army!

 

[Anonymous]

And also way back on Mon Jan 10, 2005 at 11:11 pm
lesofprimus posted:

"Funny how many Shiden pilots racked up kills over the invincible F4U......."

Really? How many? Both the F6F and the F4U had opportunities to engage the N1K. 1945 official USN results of combat for each type:

F6F vs N1K series - 28 to 0
F4U or FG vs N1K series - 7 to 0
So, the way the USN figures it, 35 Shinden's shot down to no losses.

You need to take care with Japanese claims. Essentially, if they shot at a plane and then lost sight of it, it was considered shot down. By 1944 most all USN claims were verified through gun camera film.

Regards,

Rich

That is very true!

The Japanese, espeically during the Solomans campaign (i.e. Guadacanal) are often quoted as having said things like "we keep shooting them down, but they replace them even faster". In fact, the Japanese would hit an American plane and assume it was killed when what was happening was the damaged plane would dive away from combat, return to base, and be flying again in a few days. And even when planes were lost more often than not the pilot survived. The Japanese never had the success they though they were having.

The Japanese assumed that because a few hits was all it took to kill their own planes, that was all it would take to kill a US plane.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[R Leonard]

MP-Willow posted on Sun Feb 06, 2005 at 12:36 pm
RL, Where did you find the pictures? Is there any story to go with them?

Lieutenant Commander Syd Bottomley, who had earlier served as XO of VB-3 at the Battle of Midway and then succeeded Max Leslie as squadron CO when Leslie fleeted up to CAG-3, was assigned to the Ship Experimental Unit of the Naval Aircraft Factory at Mustin Field, Philadelphia in the fall of 1943. The SEU was responsible for the evaluation and testing of catapult and arresting gear engines and associated handling equipment designed for shipboard and small field use. Bottomley was charged with the operation and maintenance of the test aircraft assigned to projects by the Bureau of Aeronautics and preparation of test aircraft reports, including evaluating carrier suitability portions of the Board of Inspection and Survey trials of new prototype aircraft. Assisting him were Lieutenants Bob Elder and Charlie Lane who had served with him in VB-3 and whom Bottomley dragooned away from the training command.

Among the projects under Bottomley's charge at SEU were the modifications of the P-38, P-39 and P-40 with catapult hooks by NAF for launching from jeep carrier transports. After modifications were completed it was Bottomley and company's place to make catapult shots to determine feasibility, trim tab and flap settings and check flight characteristics. Soon they were also given a modified P-47, P-51, and even a P-61 for catapult feasibility testing. The Bureau of Aeronautics already knew that B-25's could be launched from carriers, but wanted to know if they could be launched with catapults and so provided SEU with a Marine Corps PBJ-1H (BuNo 35277) which the Corps had acquired from the USAAF. The PBJ-1H was the same as the cannon armed B-25H, and, indeed, this particular airplane had started its life as USAAF 43-4700.

Much of their activities involved testing the tricycle landing geared Grumman F7F Tigercat. No tricycle gear aircraft had ever been in carrier service and there was great concern over possible fuselage and nose damage resulting from the stress of off-center landings with a fixed, non-swiveling tailhook. Charlie Lane was project pilot and lost no time in demonstrating what an uneven cable friction load could do to the skin and frame of a nose-wheeled airplane. It was apparent that the arrestor hook needed to be relocated further forward and have swivel capability if the F7F was to ever carrier qualify. To further prove their points of hook location and swivel, Bottomley sought and received permission for BuAer to include their PBJ-1H in catapult and shipboard handling tests. An SBD tail hook assembly(the SBD was considered to have the most reliable tailhook arrangement) was installed on the PBJ and it was readied for further testing. In land based tests conducted at USCGAS Cape May an unexpected problem appeared: with full-flight engagement of the arresting gear, the single pilot's seat lock would disengage and let the pilot and seat slide forward onto the yoke. This was a big surprise the first time it happened and certainly not a happy event for Bottomley. As a solution, a steel strap was welded to the top of the seat from the bulkhead behind the pilot to keep the seat in place.

On November 15, 1944, three aircraft were successfully tested for arrested landings and catapult launches aboard USS Shangri-La. Charlie Lane successfully demonstrated the results of relocating the swivel arrestor hook on the F7F. Bob Elder put an arrestor hook equipped P-51 through its paces.

And then it was Bottomley's turn in the PBJ. Bottomley told the story:

" . . . it was amazing how easily the PB| swung into the groove and picked up a wire. The ensuing catapult shot was a breeze, as was the next landing. Then the PBJ was struck below for handling tests on the hangar deck. The main wheels had been designed to turn sideways to ease the plane into tight spots, so BuAer and AirLant staff observers were all over, in and under the PBJ.
"Everything had gone so well it was determined no further shipboard tests were necessary and I taxied into position on the catapult. I had planned to take just the plane captain, Koffel, and Chief Photo Mate Hicks back to Philadelphia direct from the ship. However, Lieutenant Jim Daniels, the SEU catapult officer, talked me into letting him ride over the bottom hatch below the cockpit with Koffel. Chief Hicks sat in the cannoneer seat to my right.
"When the catapult fired, the yoke flew out of my hands as the pilot's seat slid back into the bulkhead, doubling up the steel jury straps that were only designed to keep the seat from moving forward. Some observer on the ship had apparently tried to adjust the pilot seat position and the latch had never re-positioned in its track slot. There we were, airborne off the bow with no one near the controls. But thank God for Jim Daniels! Jim had played tackle for the Georgia Tech Rose Bowl team immortalized by "Wrong Way" Right. With one shove of his mighty arm that seat went back along the tracks into position where I could grab the yoke and reach the wheels-up lever. We then departed for NAS Norfolk, landing an hour later none the worse for our experience."

Syd Bottomley left SEU in June 1945 and naval career attaining the rank of Captain. In the course of his wartime service he was awarded the Navy Cross, the Distinguished Flying Cross with Gold Star, six Air Medals, and the Presidential Unit Citation. His campaign awards include: American Defense Service Medal, Fleet Clasp; American Campaign Medal; and the World War II Victory Medal.

Bob Elder waiting for launch signal P-51D BuNo 57987 (x USAAF 44-14017) 15 Nov 44, USS Shangri-La

Bob Elder deck launches

Charlie Lane's F7F (BuNo 80291) aboard USS Shangri-La, 15 Nov 44.

Photos and most of the info from an old The Hook, Winter 1978, also long ago chat with Bob Elder

Philly, huh? Lived there, actually Langhorne, for a year in the early 80's. Used to go out to the Willow Grove NAS to watch the P-3s come in and go out. Always reminded me of growing up at various NAS around the country. Game just ended. I was disappointed.

Regards,

Rich

 

[MP-Willow]

Well ok, I really do like the help for looking at the B-24. On looking I found a nice picture that i wanted to share, it is not a B-24, but you can all take a gess at it

That Tigercat picture is nice. A great plane that was engulfed by the jet!

 

[wmaxt]

I went for the -38. Shot down more Japs than any other plane...and so what if thats only cos it was around longer, It was well advanced for it time...Im surprised its ahead of the F6F in the poll actually.

I Agree completely even if the records that survived are not complete enough to back it up. The P-38 was the plane!

Great stuff Rich, I'm a B-25 fan and never came accross anything like that.

 

[cheddar cheese]

Thanks wm 8)

 

[MP-Willow]

C.C, Why you so surprised?
The P-38 was just great

The P47 and F6F both should get good reviews. Also the P-40 was around just as long or realy longer then the P-38, so please think of it. I realy like that one just because it got so mch out of it.

Qustion what do you al think about the Spitfire at it's time in the Pacific?

 

[Chocks away!]

There seem to be other planes missing from the poll. How about kawasaki ki-61? or the ki-100?

 

[Anonymous]

There seem to be other planes missing from the poll. How about kawasaki ki-61? or the ki-100?

Those planes were okay, but clearly not in the class of the N1K2 or KI-84.

=S=

Lunatic

 

[MP-Willow]

The pol was created with some thought, the ki-100 and ki-61, two of the Jaonese designs I like are late commers and were not to have a great impact. But if the war were to have gone on and assuming Japan could find production space the N1J2 would have given the B-29s ad even the P-51H problums.