Best piston engine(s) for fighters of 1945? (1 Viewer)

[drgondog]

The 9th AF had been scheduled to receive the P-51 units, that changed but for example the 354th FG remained with the 9th AF. On 31 January the 351st FG with P-51 went to 8th AF exchanged for the 358th FG with P-47. On 9 March 1944 the 355th FG began moving from P-47 to P-51, officially completing it a week later, thereby making the 8th AF fighter strength 3 P-38, 7 P-47 and 2 P-51 groups, there were 3 more conversions done by mid May, plus the arrival of the 339th with P-51, while another P-38 group arrived mid May. D-Day force 4 P-38, 4 P-47, 7 P-51. The P-38 were phased out July to September, then 3 of the remaining P-47 between mid September and early 1945.

Geoffrey - the 357th FG was traded from 9th AF to 8th AF. The 357FS/355th actually began transitioning on P-51B (in training) on or about 25 Feb but most were pulled and temporarily assigned to the 4th FG two days later. All 'loaners' were returned to 355th after the March 6 Berlin mission. On the 6th one squdron (357th FS/355th FG) flew the P-51B. The entire 355th flew first 'all P-51B' on 9 March. After the 355th conversion on the 9th March there were 3 (4, 355, 357FG).

The 78th FG fully transitioned in last week of December, leaving only the 56th flying P-47.

The shortage of USAAF fighters saw the 9th AF units doing escort duty and the RAF helping with insertion and withdrawal cover.

Napier failed to get the Sabre IV to pass the 50 hour test. The Sabre V numbers seem to include a lot of conversions from mark II engines, there were 142 Tempest VI.

Another Napier did not fail it was stopped by outside forces and where the documents have differences to the reported conclusions. The RAF was quite aware of the early jet limitations.

Typhoons were out of service in September 1945, looks like there were 11 Tempest V fighter squadrons, 5 gave up their mark V by end 1945, 4 more in 1946 and the final 2 in February and April 1948. The 4 mark VI squadrons received their aircraft late 1946 to early 1947, giving them up late 1949 and finally March 1950. Meaning the RAF had around 6 Sabre powered fighter squadrons until April 1948. The 9 mark II squadrons all received their aircraft earlier than the mark VI squadrons, from late 1945, but did not hold onto them for as long, 3 gave the mark II up in 1946, 3 in 1947 then 1 each in 1948, 1949 and June 1951.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Geoffrey - the 357th FG was traded from 9th AF to 8th AF. The 357FS/355th actually began transitioning on P-51B (in training) on or about 25 Feb but most were pulled and temporarily assigned to the 4th FG two days later. All 'loaners' were returned to 355th after the March 6 Berlin mission. On the 6th one squdron (357th FS/355th FG) flew the P-51B. The entire 355th flew first 'all P-51B' on 9 March. After the 355th conversion on the 9th March there were 3 (4, 355, 357FG).

Yes, correct, I managed to pick up the 351st Bomb Group instead of the 357th Fighter Group when transcribing and the public domain references I used seem to have had the end transition date as the start of transition date (probably the same for 30 December 1944 date I have for the 78th FG) or I misunderstood.

Went looking and found strength reports saying the 355th with 52 P-47 on 15 February, 3 P-51 and 60 P-47 on 29 February, 77 P-51 on 6 March.

The 78th FG fully transitioned in last week of December, leaving only the 56th flying P-47.

Any idea when the 78th FG began to transition?

The project was trying to come up with a day to day 8th AF OOB.

 

[drgondog]

Yes, correct, I managed to pick up the 351st Bomb Group instead of the 357th Fighter Group when transcribing and the public domain references I used seem to have had the end transition date as the start of transition date (probably the same for 30 December 1944 date I have for the 78th FG) or I misunderstood.

Went looking and found strength reports saying the 355th with 52 P-47 on 15 February, 3 P-51 and 60 P-47 on 29 February, 77 P-51 on 6 March.


Any idea when the 78th FG began to transition?

The project was trying to come up with a day to day 8th AF OOB.

If you can find interval reports, you will see aproximately 20 P-51s delivered 24-26 Feb - then TDY for 8 to 4th FG on or about 28 Feb.

As to 78th, according to Garry Frye - the first arrivals were 16 December, mostly new K's and some B's.

Do you know Peter Randall? He and Ted Damick have a spectacular OOB data base for 8th AF.

The 355th dispatched the 357FS with P-51B/C on 8 March (not the 6th as I said above - that was last 'all P-47 mission).

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

If you can find interval reports, you will see aproximately 20 P-51s delivered 24-26 Feb - then TDY for 8 to 4th FG on or about 28 Feb.

Dates noted about the 355th and 78th, thanks. No interval reports, the most detailed data I have are some weekly reports from AIR 22/325, 8th and 9th AF aircraft and personnel strengths, including non flying units, I am sure someone is interested that as of 29 February 1944 the 1512th QM Truck Battalion HQ and HQ detachment plus auxiliary units at Huyton in Lancashire had 56 officers and 749 enlisted men. Does show the long support tail an Air Force has.

Do you know Peter Randall? He and Ted Damick have a spectacular OOB data base for 8th AF.

Do not know either man, I am sure with their access they have a far better OOB than my efforts, which are basically group level plus independent squadrons, with the idea at any date between 23 February 1942 and 31 December 1945 you could read off the OOB for that day, including the command structure during the war, post war just group strengths, showing the run down.

 

[drgondog]

Dates noted about the 355th and 78th, thanks. No interval reports, the most detailed data I have are some weekly reports from AIR 22/325, 8th and 9th AF aircraft and personnel strengths, including non flying units, I am sure someone is interested that as of 29 February 1944 the 1512th QM Truck Battalion HQ and HQ detachment plus auxiliary units at Huyton in Lancashire had 56 officers and 749 enlisted men. Does show the long support tail an Air Force has.

Do not know either man, I am sure with their access they have a far better OOB than my efforts, which are basically group level plus independent squadrons, with the idea at any date between 23 February 1942 and 31 December 1945 you could read off the OOB for that day, including the command structure during the war, post war just group strengths, showing the run down.

If you have Facebook, reach out to him and mention me if it will kelp (James William Marshall). Also try littlelfriends.co.uk

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

Correspondence with the friendly Peter Randall gives the following results.

1) Peter has information down to individual fighter aircraft level and can report useful things like the 78th Fighter Group flew their first P-51 missions on different days for the three squadrons. 82nd on 29th December, 83rd on 28th December and 84th on 5th January. In fact, the 84th were using ex-82nd and 83rd P-47s from 28th December until their first P-51 mission.

2) What the heck is a bomber??!!

 

[drgondog]

Correspondence with the friendly Peter Randall gives the following results.

1) Peter has information down to individual fighter aircraft level and can report useful things like the 78th Fighter Group flew their first P-51 missions on different days for the three squadrons. 82nd on 29th December, 83rd on 28th December and 84th on 5th January. In fact, the 84th were using ex-82nd and 83rd P-47s from 28th December until their first P-51 mission.

2) What the heck is a bomber??!!

Peter is an outstanding historian. His website Littlefriends is the single best internet resource for 8th AF Fighter Command.

I also recommend his books on the 56th FG (with Co-author Nigel Julian) as the best of the 56th FG histories.