Best WW2 Fighter Pilot Poll Round 2

Did the LW in North Africa really have the ressources to fly ground support to same extent as the Allies?
How are Marseilles claims for aircraft shot down recognised as being pure fighters rather than fighter-bombers?

Did the LW in North Africa really have the ressources to fly ground support to same extent as the Allies?

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I was speaking principally about the use of fighters as fighter-bombers used in support of ground forces. There's no way the Germans had the capacity to do that to the extent of the Allies. But as far as I know, the Germans didn't do it at all in North Africa. Maybe some isolated occurrences, admittedly. But nothing like any sort of real effort.

How are Marseilles claims for aircraft shot down recognised as being pure fighters rather than fighter-bombers?

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Well, the Allies used their principal types in North Africa, the Hurricane and P-40s, as fighter bombers. Whether or not Marseilles knew the capacity in which they were flying when he attacked them is unknown to me. The point is, however, that Marseilles was more interested in fighters than bombers. That's reflected in his kill claims. Especially considering the large quantity of British bombers present that could have been targeted. The history of the Allied air war in North Africa is replete with accounts of bomber attacks on German troops with out any German fighter opposition. JG27 certainly had the opportunity to target bombers but they didn't. It is, without questions, one of the greatest blunders of the German military during the campaign in North Africa.

I'm certainly not the first to proffer this position. JG27's military contribution to the campaign in North Africa was negligible. British bombers did emense damage to German ground forces and JG27 did very little to stop them. Not because they couldn't, but rather because their priorities were wrong. Pilot rivalry, unit rivalry, glory-seeking, etc. Marseilles was a glory-hound. Even if all his claims were true (and they aren't), the effect on the British air campaign was next to nothing. The proper use of fighters under these circumstances is to prevent the enemy from destroying your ground troops (by destroying bombers), and by destroying enemy ground troops (by use as fighter bombers).

No doubt the Lw made many mistakes in North Africa; whether or not the issues you outline are as clear-cut, I'm not sure.

As to Marseilles; whether he could or should have shot down more bombers; or him being a glory hunter, well that's certainly possible. It's sure that he overclaimed, but that doesn't really make him stand out from the crowd. He did have the ability to manouvre his fighter into a position where he could shoot at and hit enemy aircraft, which was not a trait shared by most WWII fighter pilots. Any Hurricane or P-40 he shot down, was not coming back the next day to bomb or strafe Axis ground troops.

BIG BIRD said:

Hans-Joachim Marseille was amazing. At one point he averiged only 15 rounds of amunition per kill. He was the best marksman in the luftwaffe and many higher scoring aces ecnoliged it them selves. He acheved all of his kills against the western allies, he was the highest scoring ace to operate soly against the western allies. And he did all of this in just under three years. He was just plane AMAZING!

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He was, and will always be, my top pick of all the Luftwaffe pilots--

As to Marseilles; whether he could or should have shot down more bombers; or him being a glory hunter, well that's certainly possible. It's sure that he overclaimed, but that doesn't really make him stand out from the crowd. He did have the ability to manouvre his fighter into a position where he could shoot at and hit enemy aircraft, which was not a trait shared by most WWII fighter pilots. Any Hurricane or P-40 he shot down, was not coming back the next day to bomb or strafe Axis ground troops.

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There's no question that their was military value in shooting down fighters-bombers. They did an immense amount of damage. But Hans-Joachim Marseille and JG27 did little to stop bombers, concentrating on fighters instead. Bombers, by and large, attacked German troops with impunity.

In North Africa, the Luftwaffe failed in several ways. Among them, and mainly for lack of trying, the failure to blunt the British bomber offensive against their ground troops. And also by failing to supplement their own dedicated ground attack aircraft with fighters equipped for ground attack.

Once again, I'm not sure it was as simple as that. An interesting topic though, probably worth a thread of it's own.