Best WW2 Fighter Pilot Poll Round 2 (1 Viewer)

Best Pilot Pt. 2


  • Total voters
    41
  • Poll closed .

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read all of part I thoroughly, and there was only 2 mentions of Werner Mölders.

Nor anything for that matter about Heinze Knoke, Friedrich Eberle, Herwig Zuzic, Alfred Miksch, Klaus Quaet-Faslem, Horst Petzschler, Kurt Brändle, Franz Ruhl, Joachim Kirschner, Karl-Heinz Langer, Wilhelm Lemke, Wilhelm Moritz, Ernst laube, Ernst Scheufele, Theodor Weissenberger, Günther Specht, Hans-Gerd Wennekers, Hermann Hintzen, Herbert Christmann, Ludwig Franzisket, Willy Kientsch, Dr.Peter Werfft, Otto Meyer, Alfred Grislawski, Alfred Hammer, Herbert Rollwage, Günther Landt, Wilhelm Schilling, Fritz Ungar, Hauptmann Menzel, Heinrich Hackler, Eberhard Gzik, Willi Reschke.

all of whom had better tactical flying skills the Bubi. Bär on the other hand.. he was a hellofa pilot. So was Günther Rall Werner Mölders. I don't think any one particular pilot was the best, but as a whole, the LUFTWAFFE had the best pilots in the world at that or any time.
 
read all of part I thoroughly, and there was only 2 mentions of Werner Mölders.

Nor anything for that matter about Heinze Knoke, Friedrich Eberle, Herwig Zuzic, Alfred Miksch, Klaus Quaet-Faslem, Horst Petzschler, Kurt Brändle, Franz Ruhl, Joachim Kirschner, Karl-Heinz Langer, Wilhelm Lemke, Wilhelm Moritz, Ernst laube, Ernst Scheufele, Theodor Weissenberger, Günther Specht, Hans-Gerd Wennekers, Hermann Hintzen, Herbert Christmann, Ludwig Franzisket, Willy Kientsch, Dr.Peter Werfft, Otto Meyer, Alfred Grislawski, Alfred Hammer, Herbert Rollwage, Günther Landt, Wilhelm Schilling, Fritz Ungar, Hauptmann Menzel, Heinrich Hackler, Eberhard Gzik, Willi Reschke.

all of whom had better tactical flying skills the Bubi. Bär on the other hand.. he was a hellofa pilot. So was Günther Rall Werner Mölders. I don't think any one particular pilot was the best, but as a whole, the LUFTWAFFE had the best pilots in the world at that or any time.
there were many pilots the equal of on both sides its just circumstances decided who got the most opportunity to rack up scores, also in the LW you flew until you dropped as opposed to the Allied pilots being on tours using either hours or missions to limit their exposure to death
 
sure, the Finns Hungarians had excellent pilots too. and this is far from racking up claims debate. so, the RAF had rotations too? I thought it was just the Americans.
 
read all of part I thoroughly, and there was only 2 mentions of Werner Mölders.

Nor anything for that matter about Heinze Knoke, Friedrich Eberle, Herwig Zuzic, Alfred Miksch, Klaus Quaet-Faslem, Horst Petzschler, Kurt Brändle, Franz Ruhl, Joachim Kirschner, Karl-Heinz Langer, Wilhelm Lemke, Wilhelm Moritz, Ernst laube, Ernst Scheufele, Theodor Weissenberger, Günther Specht, Hans-Gerd Wennekers, Hermann Hintzen, Herbert Christmann, Ludwig Franzisket, Willy Kientsch, Dr.Peter Werfft, Otto Meyer, Alfred Grislawski, Alfred Hammer, Herbert Rollwage, Günther Landt, Wilhelm Schilling, Fritz Ungar, Hauptmann Menzel, Heinrich Hackler, Eberhard Gzik, Willi Reschke.

all of whom had better tactical flying skills the Bubi. Bär on the other hand.. he was a hellofa pilot. So was Günther Rall Werner Mölders. I don't think any one particular pilot was the best, but as a whole, the LUFTWAFFE had the best pilots in the world at that or any time.

Again, these threads were based on peoples opinion. I don't understand what the problem is? Is everyone required to have the same opinion as you? Please let me know and I will make an announcement to the forum membership.
 
I don't understand, what problem exactly? all that I wrote is just my opinion, like everyone elses. I thought this was an open discusion on 'best pilots'. my appologies if I am wrong and/or offended anybody.
 
I don't think any one particular pilot was the best, but as a whole, the LUFTWAFFE had the best pilots in the world at that or any time.

Apology noted, but Dude, that's not an opinion, that's a partisan, pro-german, biased statement. Note the all caps "LUFTWAFFE". Not to mention preceding that with a list of 30+ German pilots.

Maybe 'opinion' is too general, how about an 'informed opinion' being what we should strive for?

If you truly believe that no particular pilot was best, why not list some Finns or Americans, Brits, Canadians, or perish the thought... Russians?
How about Lock, Kent, Pattle, Khozedub, Wind,O'Hare, McCambell, McCleod, Russel, Rechkelov, etc etc.

How about jumping on the feminist bus and giving the best fighter pilot award to one of the two women who achieved ace status, Litvyak or Budanova? Litvyak knocked down one of the guys you just claimed were the best in the world at that or any time, wouldn't that make her better?
Adler, if you could just announce to the forum that Lydia Litvyak was the best fighter pilot of WWII we could put this matter to rest once and for all! :) kidding of course.
 
Best pilot and best fighter pilot might not be the same thing. A fighter pilots duty is to destroy enemy aircraft, not to awe us or anybody else with his skill. We can think of all kinds of theories of how to decide this on pilots that were last in combat over 66 years ago.

To me only one thing matters, results. Erich Hartmann.
 
One of the reasons I don't fool around in these discussions is that I don't know what metrics one should use to determine a good fighter pilot, much less a great one, and still more difficult, "the Best". The USAF spent a lot of $$ trying to figure out whether there were statistical weightings to suggest that one individual might be better suited to flying fighters but never drew any conclusions regarding metric based selection criteria.

Yet here we are. Un questionably every pilot named plus a 1000 un named deserve consideration - but somehow what we end up with is high score/survived. I can't remember whether it was Chris or Joe that introduced the question - "So how many of our top list were shot down multiple times by enemy adversaries"? In the case of the LW top aces - virtually all of them were shot down multiple times - whereas, except for Malta and BoB and Russia, most of the aces on Allied side got shot down once and the war was over!

So, do now search for the victors over Hartmann, Rall, Baer, etc?
 
A fighter pilots duty is to destroy enemy aircraft, not to awe us or anybody else with his skill.
Skill and luck keeps you alive until your luck runs out. As Ofw. Franz Meindl demostrated at Y-29. 1.1.45.

Apology noted, but Dude, that's not an opinion, that's a partisan, pro-german, biased statement. Note the all caps "LUFTWAFFE". Not to mention preceding that with a list of 30+ German pilots.
thanks. perhaps next time I'll find a different way to express my opinion. I'll be mindfull of that in the future =)
 
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So, if the poll is closed, Herr Landed Eagle, then I may not cast my vote for Chuck Yeager. How about French pilot, in a Spitfire, Pierre Clostermann? His book- "The Big Show" about the Battle of Britain, got me hooked on aviation back in HS-- The German Ace nicknamed "Bubi"- here's a WW11 trivia question based on that German term for a small boy. What other German Officer (not Luftwaffe, however) also was given that nickname, and by whom??
 
So, if the poll is closed, Herr Landed Eagle, then I may not cast my vote for Chuck Yeager. How about French pilot, in a Spitfire, Pierre Clostermann? His book- "The Big Show" about the Battle of Britain, got me hooked on aviation back in HS-- The German Ace nicknamed "Bubi"- here's a WW11 trivia question based on that German term for a small boy. What other German Officer (not Luftwaffe, however) also was given that nickname, and by whom??
Look at the date on the starting post Hansie. This thread is 10 years old.
 
Thank you for the replies to my inquiry about Pierre Clostermann. Does anyone care to guess the identity of a high-ranking WW11 German officer, who was nicknamed "Bubi" by a contemporary officer?? I have the answer, and the verification for same. Hansie..Addendum: The answer is found in the thread- Greatest WW11 German General/Field Marshall--
 
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I don't think any one particular pilot was the best, but as a whole, the LUFTWAFFE had the best pilots in the world at that or any time.

Who was best.

It seems to me that "who was the best fighter pilot" boils down to who got the job done that needed to be done.

The air war prosecuted by the western allies and the one prosecuted by the Germans were different. Allied fighters were far more likely to be used in the fighter bomber role in close air support of ground troops than German fighters were. In North Africa, for instance, the western Allies used their Hurricanes and Kittyhawks far more effectively in the fighter bomber role attacking German troops than the Luftwaffe used their fighters in defending against them. So what that Hans-Joachim Marseille claimed so many victories (many of which don't jive with Allied records of losses, by the way). His impact on stopping the prosecution of the air war against his side was negligible. Throughout the conflict with the western Allies, German troops were terrified by western Allied fighters. All that even though using a fighter for close supprot was far more dangerous that flying around looking for a dogfight.

On the other hand, the Germans never got the hang of using their fighters in the close air support role against western allies. Oh, there are instances of it. But nothing like any sort of the doctrine of close air support using fighters that the Allies had. Their use of fighters in the fighter bomber role in North Africa, for instance, was next to nil. Very little made German troops abandon their columns and head for the ditches like approaching Kittyhawks and Hurricanes. On the other hand, western troops viewed what German fighters they actually saw as curiosities.

The western Allies had a far superior doctirne with respect to the use of their fighters than the Germans did.
 
Who was best.
The western Allies had a far superior doctirne with respect to the use of their fighters than the Germans did.
A doctrine is only of use if you have the men and equipment to follow it. The Germans only surpassed the UK in fighter aircraft production some time in 1944 I believe and never matched it in four and twin engine bombers. That leaves all of Russian air power and about half of US production as "surplus" in machines. However the real surplus was in pilots, especially good ones.
 
Moreover, Hans-Joachim Marseille, only had a handful of claimed bomber kills - a tiny fraction of his overall claims. In North Africa, British bombers (and fighter bombers) wreaked havoc on German forces. But Hans-Joachim Marseille sought out fighters almost exclusively. To the extent he engaged and shot down escorts, then an argument can be made that Hans-Joachim Marseille "took the bait." While the allies didn't want to lose fighters, it wanted to lose bombers less. This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of German leadership in general and Hans-Joachim Marseille in particular of what their priorities should have been. Dancing up high in your fighter with other fighters might be glamorous, and certainly makes for good propaganda, but it doesn't win battles. Doing damage on the ground does. The allies were superior in their understanding of this. The allies did as much damage on the ground with all their warplanes, fighters included, as possible. The Germans learned the importance of using their fighters to directly support their ground forces way too late. In North Africa the Germans had the resouces to do it, and didn't. Even when they saw the British do it, they didn't.

In short, the allies used their fighters more wisely than the Germans. While Hans-Joachim Marseille shot down a whole bunch of planes, his impact would have been far greater if he had wisely targeted the right planes. And the Germans in general would have had a greater impact on the battles if they had learned to use their fighters the way the allies did when they had the resources and opportunity to do it.
 
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Moreover, Hans-Joachim Marseille, only had a handful of claimed bomber kills - a tiny fraction of his overall claims. In North Africa, British bombers (and fighter bombers) wreaked havoc on German forces. But Hans-Joachim Marseille sought out fighters almost exclusively. To the extent he engaged and shot down escorts, then an argument can be made that Hans-Joachim Marseille "took the bait." While the allies didn't want to lose fighters, it wanted to lose bombers less. This demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding on the part of German leadership in general and Hans-Joachim Marseille in particular of what their priorities should have been. Dancing up high in your fighter with other fighters might be glamorous, and certainly makes for good propaganda, but it doesn't win battles. Doing damage on the ground does. The allies were superior in their understanding of this. The allies did as much damage on the ground with all their warplanes, fighters included, as possible. The Germans learned the importance of using their fighters to directly support their ground forces way too late. In North Africa the Germans had the resouces to do it, and didn't. Even when they saw the British do it, they didn't.

In short, the allies used their fighters more wisely than the Germans. While Hans-Joachim Marseille shot down a whole bunch of planes, his impact would have been far greater if he had wisely targeted the right planes. And the Germans in general would have had a greater impact on the battles if they had learned to use their fighters the way the allies did when they had the resources and opportunity to do it.
Good post SC, with regard to Joachim Marseille and the LW in general, Marseille was involved in the destruction and damage of an extraordinary number of German aircraft, almost an allied ace himself:lol:. The Nazi propaganda machine loved its heroes and encouraged a sort of cult around them, decorations such as the Iron Cross became ever more elaborate resulting in the Iron Cross with gold oak leaves swords and diamonds and led to over claiming and a sort of "bullfighter" culture where the squadron dedicated itself as a group to advance the famous "ace" to impress the folks at home, little to do with what was actually happening on the battlefield. For all the real or imagined claims by the time he was lost in combat the LW was massively outnumbered and had achieved almost nothing in military terms.
 
With regard to the poll I propose James Denis a Free French pilot who shot down Joachim Marseilles on the 23 April and 21 May 1941 flying a Hurricane, that has to be worth something

from wiki
He scored two more victories on 23 and 28 April, his first in the North African Campaign. However, on 23 April, Marseille himself was shot down during his third sortie of that day by Sous-Lieutenant James Denis a Free French pilot with No. 73 Squadron RAF (8.5 victories), flying a Hawker Hurricane. Marseille's Bf 109 received almost 30 hits in the cockpit area, and three or four shattered the canopy. As Marseille was leaning forward the rounds missed him by inches. Marseille managed to crash-land his fighter. Just a month later, records show that James Denis shot down Marseille again on 21 May 1941. Marseille engaged Denis, but overshot his target. A turning dogfight ensued, in which Denis once again bested Marseille.[31]
 

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