Bf 109F flaps?

[von hahn]

Hi All,

I have been trying to find out a little about the shape of the Bf 109F wing flaps, but with little success. I've got the Squadron "In Action" book on the Bf 109 which does have some photos but none are clear and I've even visited the South African Museum of Military History which has a Bf 109F, but the top surface of the wing flaps is not visible.

My main question is this:

Was there a 'lip' along the flap which was visible when the flaps were extended and which fitted flush with the wing when retracted? Or was there no 'lip'? I've circled this in the attached picture.

Thanks for any help!

 

[tomo pauk]

I'd say there was the lip. Taken from spare parts manual for the Bf 109F series, FWIW:

 

[von hahn]

Thank you, Sir!

The diagram certainly appears to show the 'lip'.

I really appreciate your time and assistance .

I'd say there was the lip. Taken from spare parts manual for the Bf 109F series, FWIW:

View attachment 362888 View attachment 362889

 

[tomo pauk]

A photo of the flaps on the Bf109G-2, that as far as I know featured the same flaps as the 109F: link
The lip is visible.

 

[Airframes]

Note that the "lip" isn't really a lip as portrayed in the original photo of the flap sections, in the first post.
There is a virtually smooth transition from the forward, curved, hinge-line section, onto the 'flat', wing surface section, which is as good as flush.
Not really a "lip" at all, just a riveted joint.

 

[tomo pauk]

The 'lip' is just as high as the gauge of aluminium sheet?

 

[Airframes]

I don't think so Tomo, it appears to be as flush as it possibly can be, riveted along the joint of the 'tubular' section, and it's possible that the joint is even 'puttied', to aid the smooth, flush transition from curve to flat.
I can't see even the tiniest 'shadow line' that would indicate that the 'flat' sheet of the flap surface is raised above the line of the curve by even a couple of mm.

 

[tomo pauk]

Thank you, Terry.

 

[von hahn]

Thanks both of you for your replies.

It does look like a very flush transition from the panel to the curved leading edge of the flap, and aerodynamically this makes sense, as a lip would disturb airflow.

It's interesting that even very good model manufacturers like Eduard, whose Brassin flaps I used as an illustration in my original post, include quite a substantial lip, yet the evidence suggests that this was almost flush.

 

[GregP]

The Planes of Fame has a Hispano Ha-1112 Biuchon (same as Bf 109G-2, firewall back) and a Bf-190G-6. Both flaps fit flush, and there is "overlap" of sheet metal, but not a formed lip. When retracted, the flaps are flush. The little "lip" is from the thickness of the sheet metal, as in the pic above.

The "lip" is the thickness of the sheet metal ... probably around 0.040 inches or so.

I started the restoration maybe 8 - 9 years ago with "Pat," and am seriously looking forward to seeing it FLY. I already KNOW the engine runs and the gear / flaps retract and extend just fine. But flight is the goal, and FOR the coming airshow in 2018 (around the last week or so of May or the 1st weel of June). We'll see, wont' we?

 

[stona]

Greg has explained it very well.
The reason that kits and AM parts have the lip is simply because of the thickness of the plastic in the molding of the wing. It allows the surface of the flap to appear flush with the surface of the wing, as on the real thing.

That flap, and the lower one, have a very complicated actuation system allowing the two to open rather like a butterfly's wings, whilst the lower flap is interconnected with the landing flap. It's why we see them in all sorts of positions on parked aircraft.

109F-G-K Radiator Flap Systems

Cheers

Steve

Edit:
Tomo's post got me flicking through the 'ersatzteil-liste'. Here is a close up of the flaps.

#14 is labelled 'obere klappe' or upper flap, #18 is obviously the lower flap (untere klappe).

I think any significant lip would have been indicated here.

Cheers

Steve

 

[GregP]

I'll get pics of the radiator door area flaps next Saturday at the Museum and post this coming weekend. It looks kind of hokey, but seems to work just fine. It looks like it was thrown together and, upon further reflection, there really wasn't a compelling reason to change it becasue the initial "quick and dirty" mechanism worked great.

 

[von hahn]

Thanks guys!

I'm specifically referring to the conventional wing flaps (not the upper part of the radiator flaps), but honestly any diagrams are welcome!

 

[Juha2]

Here, sorry again the radiator flaps, but maybe interesting.

 

[stona]

This shows both

A late G, not an F, but they were similar if not the same.

Cheers

Steve

 

[nuuumannn]

Here's a close up of a Buchon flap: it's a little clearer than the image that you posted, Steve; the detail's a bit lost (or is it my failing eyesight?).

 

[turbo]

Here's a photo of one of Galland's modified 109F's. Although not particularly clear, it seems consistent with what others have posted above.

 

[von hahn]

Thanks everybody! I really appreciate the photos and the information!

It definitely seems that the 'lip' on the flap was just as deep as edge of the aircraft's aluminium skin and not nearly as deep as Eduard has made it.