BF-109K-4 aerial victories

[Jerrybandit67]

They were all Zeros.

Well From japanese sources say scanlan was attacked by an intercepting fighter from hyakuri airbase


well N1k2 was easier to identify as a george
Unlike n1k1 who had more resemblance to a zero

 

[Snautzer01]

Well From japanese sources say scanlan was attacked by an intercepting fighter from hyakuri airbase


well N1k2 was easier to identify as a george
Unlike n1k1 who had more resemblance to a zero

Tell that to a guy who had a japanese fighter on its tail. When in doubt,. its a zero... like very german plane is a 109
Think thats what SaparotRob Is saying

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Tell that to a guy who had a japanese fighter on its tail. When in doubt,. its a zero... like very german plane is a 109
Think thats what SaparotRob Is saying

Sorry, accidentally moves out of topic

 

[CHen10]

i found a P-51D loss to an IJN n1k1 there (june 23), but its confusing since the US reported scanlan was shot down by a zero

Which Kokutai was the N1K1 from? Finding that out can quickly confirm anything.

Oh and what was the serial number of the P-51D?

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Which Kokutai was the N1K1 from? Finding that out can quickly confirm anything.

Oh and what was the serial number of the P-51D?

44-72650

 

[CHen10]

i found a P-51D loss to an IJN n1k1 there (june 23), but its confusing since the US reported scanlan was shot down by a zero

I actually think that P-51D flown by Scanlan was shot down by J2M3s

June 23, 1945
"Kanto District P-51 Interception Battle in Ibaraki"
11:40 Yokosuka Naval District issues alert for Yokosuka area.
Second alert deployment A (interception standby).
12:05 Air raid alert issued.
First alert deployment assumed.
11:50~ First Interception Force [302nd Air Group: 15 Raiden], Second Interception Force [Tsukuba Air Group/Fighter 402/403: 23 Shiden], Fourth Interception Force [601st Air Group/Fighter 308/310: 48 Zero Fighters] of Yokosuka 3rd Air Force take off.
99P51 P-51 fighters of the US 7th Fighter Corps, guided by B-29s, attack. The main targets are Kasumigaura Naval Base and Shimodate Army Airfield in Ibaraki Prefecture, with some invading Chiba Prefecture and Tochigi Prefecture. The 302nd Air Group appears to have engaged in combat with aircraft from the 506th Fighter Wing/458th Fighter Squadron over the Boso Peninsula.
1313 Air raid warning lifted.
[Formation]
15 Raiden
First Platoon
First Plane: Captain Ueno Norio, shot down, killed in action, engaged in combat with a P-51 from the 458th Fighter Squadron, crashed near Yachimata, Chiba Prefecture
Second Plane: shot down, parachuted
Third Plane: Sergeant Kudo Minoru
Fourth Plane: shot down, parachuted
First Platoon
First Plane: Lieutenant Akamatsu Sadaaki *Cooperative kill: 1 P-51 fighter [with Sergeant Saijo]
Number One Plane: Sergeant Saijo Toru *Cooperative kill: 1 P-51 fighter [with Lieutenant Akamatsu]
Sergeant Kobayashi Katsuji Downed, killed in action, engaged in combat with a P-51 from the 458th Fighter Squadron, crashed into a rice field in Sanbu-gun, Chiba Prefecture
[Battle results]
Unknown
[Total battle results]
Unknown
《US military records》
Losses: 3 P-51 fighters
[Damage]
Losses: 4 Raiden [1 suicide bomber, 1 not returning, 2 parachuted]
Crew killed in action: 2
[Total damage]
Down: 4 Shiden, 7 Zero fighters
Wrecked on the ground: 10 Zero fighters
[Casualties]
Captain Norio Ueno (72nd Marine Corps Class), 1st Squadron "Raiden Squadron"
Sergeant Kobayashi Katsuji (8th Class, Marine Corps Class), 1st Squadron "Raiden Squadron"

After that day
Interception battles were almost never carried out.

『第三〇二海軍航空隊 （１８）』

第三〇二海軍航空隊 （１８）　　昭和２０年６月上旬飛行長：西畑喜一郎少佐が、横須賀鎮守府及び第七一航空戦隊／航空参謀に転勤。第一飛行隊長：山田九七郎少佐が、飛…

ameblo.jp

Tsukuba Kokutai had no victory claims on 23 June and the only claims were made by 302 Kokutai J2Ms. One of the claims was made by Akamatsu Sadaaki.

 

[CHen10]

North American P-51D-20-NA FT-A shot down by Bf 109K-4 flown by Lt Karl Broo of JG 53/5 8 mi E of Prague,
Czechoslovakia Apr 20, 1945. MACR 14101. Pilot bailed out and returned 4 days later.

I'm not sure Broo was the one who shot down this P-51.

Broo's kill doesn't have a location and since he was with 5/JG53, he would have been based at Ulm Ristissen. 5/JG53 was part of II./JG53 which was based at Ulm Ristissen from 1 April 1945 to 21 April 1945.

1.4.45 - 21.4.45

Ulm-Ristissen

Ulm-Ristissen is quite far from Prague so I don't think Broo would have flown over there on 20 April

Jagdgeschwader 53

 

[Jerrybandit67]

I'm not sure Broo was the one who shot down this P-51.

Broo's kill doesn't have a location and since he was with 5/JG53, he would have been based at Ulm Ristissen. 5/JG53 was part of II./JG53 which was based at Ulm Ristissen from 1 April 1945 to 21 April 1945.

1.4.45 - 21.4.45

Ulm-Ristissen

Ulm-Ristissen is quite far from Prague so I don't think Broo would have flown over there on 20 April

Jagdgeschwader 53

yea i saw it on the site

 

[Jerrybandit67]

I actually think that P-51D flown by Scanlan was shot down by J2M3s

June 23, 1945
"Kanto District P-51 Interception Battle in Ibaraki"
11:40 Yokosuka Naval District issues alert for Yokosuka area.
Second alert deployment A (interception standby).
12:05 Air raid alert issued.
First alert deployment assumed.
11:50~ First Interception Force [302nd Air Group: 15 Raiden], Second Interception Force [Tsukuba Air Group/Fighter 402/403: 23 Shiden], Fourth Interception Force [601st Air Group/Fighter 308/310: 48 Zero Fighters] of Yokosuka 3rd Air Force take off.
99P51 P-51 fighters of the US 7th Fighter Corps, guided by B-29s, attack. The main targets are Kasumigaura Naval Base and Shimodate Army Airfield in Ibaraki Prefecture, with some invading Chiba Prefecture and Tochigi Prefecture. The 302nd Air Group appears to have engaged in combat with aircraft from the 506th Fighter Wing/458th Fighter Squadron over the Boso Peninsula.
1313 Air raid warning lifted.
[Formation]
15 Raiden
First Platoon
First Plane: Captain Ueno Norio, shot down, killed in action, engaged in combat with a P-51 from the 458th Fighter Squadron, crashed near Yachimata, Chiba Prefecture
Second Plane: shot down, parachuted
Third Plane: Sergeant Kudo Minoru
Fourth Plane: shot down, parachuted
First Platoon
First Plane: Lieutenant Akamatsu Sadaaki *Cooperative kill: 1 P-51 fighter [with Sergeant Saijo]
Number One Plane: Sergeant Saijo Toru *Cooperative kill: 1 P-51 fighter [with Lieutenant Akamatsu]
Sergeant Kobayashi Katsuji Downed, killed in action, engaged in combat with a P-51 from the 458th Fighter Squadron, crashed into a rice field in Sanbu-gun, Chiba Prefecture
[Battle results]
Unknown
[Total battle results]
Unknown
《US military records》
Losses: 3 P-51 fighters
[Damage]
Losses: 4 Raiden [1 suicide bomber, 1 not returning, 2 parachuted]
Crew killed in action: 2
[Total damage]
Down: 4 Shiden, 7 Zero fighters
Wrecked on the ground: 10 Zero fighters
[Casualties]
Captain Norio Ueno (72nd Marine Corps Class), 1st Squadron "Raiden Squadron"
Sergeant Kobayashi Katsuji (8th Class, Marine Corps Class), 1st Squadron "Raiden Squadron"

After that day
Interception battles were almost never carried out.

『第三〇二海軍航空隊 （１８）』

第三〇二海軍航空隊 （１８）　　昭和２０年６月上旬飛行長：西畑喜一郎少佐が、横須賀鎮守府及び第七一航空戦隊／航空参謀に転勤。第一飛行隊長：山田九七郎少佐が、飛…

ameblo.jp

Tsukuba Kokutai had no victory claims on 23 June and the only claims were made by 302 Kokutai J2Ms. One of the claims was made by Akamatsu Sadaaki.

although scanlan was from 47th FS, not 458th

 

[CHen10]

although scanlan was from 47th FS, not 458th

47 FS and 458 FS were both present

 

[Jerrybandit67]

47 FS and 458 FS were both present

oh

 

[Jerrybandit67]

hmm, on 19 april, 1945 a P-51D-25 from 364h FG was shot down by a friendly fire from russian fighters, pilot bailed out over stuttgart

what kind of soviet aircraft were there at stuttgart?

 

[CHen10]

hmm, on 19 april, 1945 a P-51D-25 from 364h FG was shot down by a friendly fire from russian fighters, pilot bailed out over stuttgart

what kind of soviet aircraft were there at stuttgart?

I don't know which Soviet VAs were in the area so I can't help with this bit, but there is the possibility that it wasn't friendly fire and that the Luftwaffe shot it down. In the heat of battle, pilots sometimes made mistakes in their observations.

 

[Jerrybandit67]

P-51D-20NA 44-72080 was listed as shot down by a bf-109G-6 flown by Arnold Walter of 9./JG-27
but his bf -109G-6 "yellow 6" was lost in 1944, so he might have flown a Bf-109K-4 "yellow 6" in 1945

 

[CHen10]

P-51D-20NA 44-72080 was listed as shot down by a bf-109G-6 flown by Arnold Walter of 9./JG-27
but his bf -109G-6 "yellow 6" was lost in 1944, so he might have flown a Bf-109K-4 "yellow 6" in 1945

Interesting. How do you know Walter Arnold shot down that P-51?

 

[Jerrybandit67]

found 44-63896 shot down by german fighters 24 march 1945

wich luftwaffe pilot claimed that kill?

 

[CHen10]

found 44-63896 shot down by german fighters 24 march 1945

wich luftwaffe pilot claimed that kill?

Jan J. Safarik: Aces; Germany - Wartime Aerial Victory Credits

Here you can find Luftwaffe victories in 1945 and so any matching claims on 24 March 1945 would be what you need

 

[Jerrybandit67]

Jan J. Safarik: Aces; Germany - Wartime Aerial Victory Credits

Here you can find Luftwaffe victories in 1945 and so any matching claims on 24 March 1945 would be what you need

tbh its hard to find bf-109G-10 k-4 p-51 aerial victories against P-51D

although bf 109G-6 managed to score victories against p-51D-20NA in april 1945

since i noticed in 1945 fw-190A and D-9 pilots fared better than bf 109 pilots against p-51