Bluie West #1

billrunnels · May 18, 2018

Bad-Karma said:
Great post Bill! Where did you end up flying back to in the states? Did the forts end up sitting at air bases or were they already slated for the scrap heap?

We returned an aircraft arriving Bradly Field, Windsor Locks, Connecticut June, 14, 1945. The B-17 was abandoned here. Have no idea what happened to it.

airminded88 · May 18, 2018

billrunnels said:
Twenty aircraft were dispatched for our night crossing to Iceland. Two sent in SOS of which one made it and one was lost.
The night emergency landing in Greenland was the most concerning thing I experienced during the war more so than any mission. The thought of bailing out over the Icecap, which was vetoed by a crew vote, or ditching in the cold Atlantic was up setting to say the least. Between the crossing and the first operational sortie it was smooth sailing. The two week period of training and just getting acquainted consumed my time. I found the period to be a welcome challenge.

Flying at night over an icy ocean is definitely not for the faint of heart!
Many crews were sadly lost on that dangerous trip.
Thank you for sharing Bill

Cheers

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

Our lack of sufficient fuel to reach Iceland was the result of excess flight time between Goose Bay and Bluie West #1. The weather over the Atlantic made live navigation impossible. We couldn't see the stars or the water. The only navigation tool we had was the metro data received prior to take off and it wasn't accurate. We reached that point in time when the radio signal from the tip of Greenland should be audible but it wasn't. Our navigator made a second attempt a few minutes later and picked up a faint signal. We were considerably north of the plotted course. Homed in on the signal and on reaching it created a new heading for Iceland. We had just cleared the Ice Cap when our navigator determined insufficient fuel.

MIflyer · May 19, 2018

Bill: "Consequently, a minimum safe altitude of 12,000 ft was recommended."

I have read of cases of aircraft making accidental belly landings in areas like that, due to poor visibility or simply the inability of the crew to discern the difference between the white sky and white ground. It's a case of "Hey! What was that noise! And why did our airspeed suddenly go to zero?"

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

MIflyer said:
Bill: "Consequently, a minimum safe altitude of 12,000 ft was recommended."

I have read of cases of aircraft making accidental belly landings in areas like that, due to poor visibility or simply the inability of the crew to discern the difference between the white sky and white ground. It's a case of "Hey! What was that noise! And why did our airspeed suddenly go to zero?"

Depth perception certainly could be a problem.

Zipper730 · May 19, 2018

billrunnels said:
On our (night) crossing in January 1945 we had to make an emergency landing at Bluie West One in Greenland due to insufficient fuel to make Iceland. While over the Ice Cap the base control tower was contacted. The operator said the base was closed because of gusting surface winds up to 80 MPH and they had no electric runway lights.

Yikes, what's the landing speed on a B-17?

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

Zipper730 said:
Yikes, what's the landing speed on a B-17?

Sorry I don't know but my guess would be between 125 and 150 mph indicated. I know the wing flaps were lowered at 145 mph indicated.

MIflyer · May 19, 2018

According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":

1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.

2. On landing you came over the fence at 110 mph and it would stall out at 92 or 93 mph.

3. Whether in good shape or shot up it was pretty consistent as to the required airspeeds.

Note that with a lot of wind, especially a lot of crosswind, you would use higher airspeeds. The wind reduces your groundspeed but not the airspeed it will stall at. Wind bouncing off of obstructions near the ground and gusting can cause you to stall at higher indicated airspeeds than 92 mph.

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

MIflyer said:
According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":

1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.

2. On landing you came over the fence at 110 mph and it would stall out at 92 or 93 mph.

3. Whether in good shape or shot up it was pretty consistent as to the required airspeeds.

Note that with a lot of wind, especially a lot of crosswind, you would use higher airspeeds. The wind reduces your groundspeed but not the airspeed it will stall at. Wind bouncing off of obstructions near the ground and gusting can cause you to stall at higher indicated airspeeds than 92 mph.

Thanks for the i

MIflyer said:
According to a B-17 pilot in the book "The Bomber Aircrew Experience":

1. You went down the runway on takeoff and at 100 mph indicated you pulled the wheel back and it started flying.

2. On landing you came over the fence at 110 mph and it would stall out at 92 or 93 mph.

3. Whether in good shape or shot up it was pretty consistent as to the required airspeeds.

Note that with a lot of wind, especially a lot of crosswind, you would use higher airspeeds. The wind reduces your groundspeed but not the airspeed it will stall at. Wind bouncing off of obstructions near the ground and gusting can cause you to stall at higher indicated airspeeds than 92 mph.

Thanks for the info.

25Kingman49 · May 19, 2018

billrunnels said:
We returned an aircraft arriving Bradly Field, Windsor Locks, Connecticut June, 14, 1945. The B-17 was abandoned here. Have no idea what happened to it.

Bill, from your 303BG Memories:
"Departure Operations Order #168, dated June 19, 1945 made me the bombardier on Major Ruel G. Weikert's Crew. This crew was the first of eighteen to depart for the States The order also included the good news phrase "proceed via the best available air route to Bradley Field , Windsor Locks, Connecticut, thence to Camp Miles Standish , Boston POE (point of embarkation). B-17G #43-38560 had been parked on an isolated hard stand for loading."

From Joe Baugher no listing other than construction grouping aid: B-17G-90-BO-43-38560; a Boeing Seattle, WA (Plant 2) built Fort.
From Dave Osborne, Fort Log (expanded): 43-38560 Delivered Cheyenne 17/8/44; Lincoln 6/9/44; Grenier 18/9/44; slated Soxo; Returned to the USA Bradley 24/6/45; 4168 Base Unit, South Plains, Texas 27/6/45; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (sold for scrap metal in USA) Kingman 20/12/45. Note: SOXO is a shipping code = Eighth AF. England.

It seems your Fort home met its end in the northern Arizona high desert. Searched but was unable to find a photo of this Fort. Some indication here 43-38560 | American Air Museum in Britain that this ship may have had nose art and name "Stormy Weather" serving with the 94BG not recorded in the Osborne record.

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

25Kingman49 said:
Bill, from your 303BG Memories:
"Departure Operations Order #168, dated June 19, 1945 made me the bombardier on Major Ruel G. Weikert's Crew. This crew was the first of eighteen to depart for the States The order also included the good news phrase "proceed via the best available air route to Bradley Field , Windsor Locks, Connecticut, thence to Camp Miles Standish , Boston POE (point of embarkation). B-17G #43-38560 had been parked on an isolated hard stand for loading."

From Joe Baugher no listing other than construction grouping aid: B-17G-90-BO-43-38560; a Boeing Seattle, WA (Plant 2) built Fort.
From Dave Osborne, Fort Log (expanded): 43-38560 Delivered Cheyenne 17/8/44; Lincoln 6/9/44; Grenier 18/9/44; slated Soxo; Returned to the USA Bradley 24/6/45; 4168 Base Unit, South Plains, Texas 27/6/45; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (sold for scrap metal in USA) Kingman 20/12/45. Note: SOXO is a shipping code = Eighth AF. England.

It seems your Fort home met its end in the northern Arizona high desert. Searched but was unable to find a photo of this Fort. Some indication here 43-38560 | American Air Museum in Britain that this ship may have had nose art and name "Stormy Weather" serving with the 94BG not recorded in the Osborne record.

Thank you for the information on the aircraft we brought back.

billrunnels · May 19, 2018

If you want to get a birds eye view of the beauty Greenland has to offer go to YouTube and check out the "Landing at Narsarsuaq"(Bluie West #1) videos. They have several you can watch.

Gnomey · May 19, 2018

Great stuff Bill!

Bluie West #1

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