Boeing Names Independent Quality Review Leader

[MIflyer]

A Navy Nuclear Expert probably is a good choice for this job. The USN nuclear people study the loss of the shuttle Challenger to better understand decision making that leads to failure. Do you think that any space launch or aircraft companies study what happened to the Challenger? Nope!

Boeing has tapped retired U.S. Navy Admiral Kirk Donald, a former director of the branch's nuclear propulsion program, to lead an independent review of the company's quality system and supplier oversight.

The review, announced Jan. 15 in a company-wide message from Boeing Commercial Airplanes President Stan Deal, will examine Boeing's commercial airplane quality management, including "quality programs and practices in Boeing manufacturing facilities" as well as its supplier quality oversight. The team's report and recommendations will go to Boeing's top management and board, the company said.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Long overdue, in my layman's opinion.

 

[MIflyer]

Long overdue, in my layman's opinion.

After the Challenger was lost NASA supposedly evaluated the idea of having an permanent independent group to evaluate flight safety concerns, such as the USAF space program has had since the early 1960's and decided not to. After Columbia was lost they announced they were doing it.... and then did not.

At one time I was very interested in creating an educational effort to teach new engineers about the history of failures, but came to realize only the equivalent of high speed 2X4's applied to the cranium, repeatedly, would ever do any good.
First space launch vehicle: Viking. Number of launches before there was a success: 4
SpaceX Falcon 1: Number of launches before there was a success: 4

 

[special ed]

It appears some in the news media want to treat Boeing as they do with certain candidates. The AOL news commented about a JAL 777 clipped the tail of a Delta 717 while leaving or arriving at the terminal. "Both planes were Boeing and were being inspected for defects. None found as yet."

 

[Admiral Beez]

I think we in the West need to question if private equity firms are good for our economies and ways of life. The Vanguard Group and BlackRock own the majority of shares in Boeing. The modus operandi of equity firms is to acquire established companies and then strip out cost by outsourcing as many functions as possible, in order to maximize immediate profits, with the aim to dump the stock at its zenith before the serious and foundational consequences of their earlier cost cutting are realized.

https://www.wsj.com/business/airlines/boeing-manufacturing-737-max-alaska-door-plug-spirit-18f7e233

Paywall free: https://archive.is/DfXiW

Private Equity is Out of Control and Looting America. This Prosecutor Says We Can Fix It.

In his new book, “Plunder: Private Equity’s Plan To Pillage America,” Brendan Ballou, a federal prosecutor who served as Special Counsel for Private Equity in the Justice Department's Antitrust Division, outlines the dangers of a trillion-dollar industry that hardly anyone understands. He...

www.ineteconomics.org

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

737-900ER is added to the inspection order: https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...plug-checks-boeing-737-900er-jets-2024-01-22/

 

[MIflyer]

Interestingly enough, both Lock-Mart and Boeing got with the times and named female presidents. Lock-Mart quietly replaced its female president with one of its old male hands a while back, following the company's less than spectacular performance in a number of programs, including F-22 and F-35. Boeing kept their female president, head of the Defense Division.

I think the F-22 qualifies as a failed program. They crammed everything into one airplane - air to air, air-to-ground, stealth - and ended up with a very advanced airplane that was too expensive to buy in anything approaching the required quantity, just like the C-5A. We had something like 450 F-111's in service back when I was working on them. NAA built 500 P-51A's in just one month in 1943. 200 airplanes is not enough for anything except something like the F-111A. I note the USAF says they will phase out the F-22 just as soon as the next generation fighter is available, so they are clearly not happy with some aspects of it, and are buying more F-15's, a 50 year old design.

 

[SaparotRob]

The F-22 wasn't allowed to be sold overseas. Fewer customers. There were no non-US (headquartered?) companies allowed to participate in the development of the F-22. Budget cuts reduced the number of planes built so all costs were divided among a smaller number airframes.
The number built certainly is inadequate. It is a very impressive plane. I'll guess that industry and government learned a few mistakes to avoid for the upcoming NGAD. I'm glad we have them. Maybe it's like a "what-if" of some super duper concept that was built in enough numbers to achieve something.

I keep thinking the F-22 is sort of like the TBD. Amazing the week it came out but wait'll you see next year's model!

 

[MIflyer]

I wonder about some aspects of the F-22. In a procurement class I was taking a representative of the F-22 SPO said that the SPO chief and his deputy decided to see what mechanics have to put up with and changed the engine on an F-15. As a result they vowed there would be NO use of safety wire on the F-22. Now, I am no good at safety wiring and I never had class on how to do it properly. I can't even make it look good with being ineffective. But I am quite sure that I know more about safety wiring on an aircraft than those guys did. True, getting holes stuck in your hands is no fun but it is an inexpensive practice, even though it sometimes takes me three times to get it even close to being right. So how much did the taxpayers have to pay for an alternative method just because some guys who did not know what they were doing got their fingers stuck?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I note the USAF says they will phase out the F-22 just as soon as the next generation fighter is available, so they are clearly not happy with some aspects of it, and are buying more F-15's, a 50 year old design.

I imagine the B-52 will still be flying when the B-21 Raider is retired.

 

[Denniss]

May also happen to F-15 vs F-22 with the latter retired early due to excessive operating costs

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The leaders of United Airlines and Alaska Airlines took turns Tuesday blasting Boeing over manufacturing problems that have led to the grounding of more than 140 of their planes, with United's CEO saying his airline will consider alternatives to buying a future, larger version of the Boeing 737 Max.

"I am more than frustrated and disappointed. I am angry," Alaska Airlines CEO Ben Minicucci told "NBC Nightly News" in an interview that aired Tuesday night. "My demand on Boeing is, what are they going to do to improve their quality programs in-house?"

United CEO Scott Kirby said that Boeing needs "real action" to restore its previous reputation for quality.

Boeing said workers at its 737 factory would stop work on Thursday to hold a special session to focus on quality.

[...]

United, which has been unable to use its 79 Max 9s, disclosed on Monday that it expects to lose money in the first three months of this year because of the grounding.

Kirby said on CNBC that he believes that the Max 9s could be cleared to fly again soon, "but I'm disappointed that the manufacturing challenges do keep happening at Boeing."

At times over the past few years, manufacturing flaws have held up deliveries of Max jets and a larger Boeing plane, the 787. Last year, United received 24 fewer Boeing aircraft than it expected.

At United and Alaska airlines, frustration with Boeing's manufacturing problems is boiling over

The CEOs of Alaska Airlines and United Airlines say they are frustrated and angry about ongoing manufacturing problems at Boeing.

apnews.com

I don't think one in-house day to attend QC seminars is going to fix this problem. It appears to be a culture problem in place here.

 

[MIflyer]

It appears some in the news media want to treat Boeing as they do with certain candidates. The AOL news commented about a JAL 777 clipped the tail of a Delta 717 while leaving or arriving at the terminal. "Both planes were Boeing and were being inspected for defects. None found as yet."

Reminds me of the case in which a jet airliner taxied too close to a light aircraft and damaged it. The news reported, "The Cessna was not on a flight plan." They just repeat the same crap, over and over, with even understanding it.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I don't think one in-house day to attend QC seminars is going to fix this problem. It appears to be a culture problem in place here.

I don't think most people are aware that nowadays, Boeing doesn't manufacture most parts of its aircraft. The orange bits below are the only pieces made by Boeing. The company has essentially become a final assembler of outsourced components. Of course aircraft manufacturers have always sourced components from other firms that are specialists in those fields, such as engines. But we assumed Boeing was a specialist in its own right in designing and manufacturing the airframes.

 

[MIflyer]

I don't think most people are aware that nowadays, Boeing doesn't manufacture most parts of its aircraft. T

The DC-10 fuselage was designed by General Dynamics and when testing showed a fatal flaw GD told Douglas that they needed to redesign it, Douglas said NO. They were trying to beat the L-1011 out the door. That flaw caused the Paris crash.

Boeing likes the subs to be able to send a crew to install the pars they build in the airplane. The unions in Wash State threw a fit over that but in SC it is no problem. I wonder how the defects compare between Renton and Charleston.

 

[Admiral Beez]

From their website, "Spirit builds 70 percent of the 737, the world's most-produced commercial aircraft, including the latest version, the 737 MAX."

I doubt many outside of the industry had even heard of Sprit AeroSystems until Alaska Air lost a door plug midflight. The public had no idea that they were flying on what is essentially a Spirit AeroSystems 737, a Boeing in name only.

Spirit AeroSystems Statement on NTSB Investigation | Spirit AeroSystems

Spirit AeroSystems partners with NTSB to investigate Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 event, emphasizing aircraft structure quality.

www.spiritaero.com

I think I'll look for Airbus operators.

 

[SaparotRob]

Reminds me of the case in which a jet airliner taxied too close to a light aircraft and damaged it. The news reported, "The Cessna was not on a flight plan." They just repeat the same crap, over and over, with even understanding it.

Dude, if one doesn't know what one is writing about, the person reading said gibberish doesn't know what they're talking about, then throw in a bunch related words that makes the gibbering parrot sound knowledgeable.
Remember back in third grade when you had an assignment to write a full page report? Only what one came up with was only half a page? So one adds a bunch of filler to achieve the basic minimum? It's that.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't think most people are aware that nowadays, Boeing doesn't manufacture most parts of its aircraft. The orange bits below are the only pieces made by Boeing. The company has essentially become a final assembler of outsourced components. Of course aircraft manufacturers have always sourced components from other firms that are specialists in those fields, such as engines. But we assumed Boeing was a specialist in its own right in designing and manufacturing the airframes.

View attachment 759496

Boeing did design those bodies. In many cases they designed the subcontracted parts as well, only shopping out the building. And Boeing is responsible for the final assembly; even if outside teams come in to do the work.

Adler's soothing words aside, I think I'll buy me some stock in Johnson & Johnson all the same, because Boeing seems to be going through Band-Aids® like wildfire.

 

[MIflyer]

The public had no idea that they were flying on what is essentially a Spirit AeroSystems 737, a Boeing in name only.

Spirit IS BOEING WICHITA! Just a new name over the front door.

I think I'll buy me some stock in Johnson & Johnson all the same,

You mean the company that made the version of the COVID vaccine that was so bad they quit using it even before they realized all of the COVID vaccines had serious problems?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Spirit IS BOEING WICHITA! Just a new name over the front door.

I believe they're separate companies. Boeing's new owners spun off the Wichita plant to another equity firm. Spirit may occupy the same buildings and use much of the legacy kit they inherited from Boeing, but they're not the same. I imagine there's some retired QA guys from Boeing who slapped their foreheads when Spirit's door plug flew off that Alaskan plane.