GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
No German fighters were encountered near Norway, but if they had been, there were USN F4Fs loitering, itching for a fight.
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The SBDs also had a bit of problem in New Guinea getting from the Allied airfields to the Japanese airfields.
Climbing over the Owen Stanley mountains sucked fuel more than the more typical navy flight path (burn off some fuel before climbing).
With a 1000lb and 100 gallons of fuel the SBD needed about 850ft of runway in standard conditions (non-tropical) and it needed 1250ft with the 1000lb bomb and 249 gallons also non tropical. That is runway ground run, not distance to 50ft. 500lb bombs need shorter distances.
A lot also depended on when. The Air fields got better but the Allies based a number of their bombers away from Port Moresby and just routed through in order to avoid Japanese air raids.
The A-24s had been intended for the Philippines and had been rerouted.
No German fighters were encountered near Norway, but if they had been, there were USN F4Fs loitering, itching for a fight.
Goodness. Boone Guyton would be very surprised to learn that the aircraft he flight-tested after assembly in France were not Vultee Vengeances, and that when he trained Aeronavale pilots to fly the newly-assembled aircraft, they were not learning to fly Vengeances!The British and French ordered the Vengeance in the summer of 1940, the latter did not get any of course but the RAF ordered 700 and finally entered service with the RAF in India August 1942, first operation on October 1942, last operation 12 July 1944.
Goodness. Boone Guyton would be very surprised to learn that the aircraft he flight-tested after assembly in France were not Vultee Vengeances, and that when he trained Aeronavale pilots to fly the newly-assembled aircraft, they were not learning to fly Vengeances!
I guess the photo I have of a Vengeance on the very, very aft of the Bearn's flight deck, preparing for a takeoff test, is a Photoshop fake.
I'll add a note to that and all related files.
See my post #7 way back on page 1 of this thread for the origins of the Vengeance. There was NO French order in 1940. The first orders were placed in July 1940 by Britain after the French surrender. The aircraft France did receive in North Africa were delivered in 1943 under Lend Lease.Goodness. Boone Guyton would be very surprised to learn that the aircraft he flight-tested after assembly in France were not Vultee Vengeances, and that when he trained Aeronavale pilots to fly the newly-assembled aircraft, they were not learning to fly Vengeances!
I guess the photo I have of a Vengeance on the very, very aft of the Bearn's flight deck, preparing for a takeoff test, is a Photoshop fake.
I'll add a note to that and all related files.
See my post #7 way back on page 1 of this thread for the origins of the Vengeance. There was NO French order in 1940. The first orders were placed in July 1940 by Britain after the French surrender. The aircraft France did receive in North Africa were delivered in 1943 under Lend Lease.
when you find it let me know, I have needed it myself more than once
Apologies to everyone for being a complete idiot. I'm in the middle of writing a script for the Vought Vindicator and apparently I suffered a stroke.
Where's the emoji for punching yourself in the side of the head?
Hope everything is all right nowApologies to everyone for being a complete idiot. I'm in the middle of writing a script for the Vought Vindicator and apparently I suffered a stroke.
Prospective part of a series of videos for YouTube. They'll probably never come to fruition.Hope everything is all right now
BTW - what kind of script for the Vindicator you are writing?
FWIW, you have my best wishes and support for the endeavor.Prospective part of a series of videos for YouTube. They'll probably never come to fruition.
OK, this one I am absolutely sure of:The Roc was limited to using bombs on the light underwing bomb carriers under the wings (8x30lb bombs). Carriage of 500lb bombs was not possible as the fuselage centre section of the Roc is substantially different from that of the Skua. The Roc also has an endurance about half that of the Skua, unless you burden it with its non-droppable underfuselage fuel tank. Drawings of both types here:-
No, I'm sorrry, that's incorrect. (OK, this one I am absolutely sure of:
The Roc could carry two 250lb bombs, one under each wing. It designed from the start as a dual-role aircraft, although it would obviously be much less capable as a dive bomber than the Skua. From Blackburn Roc description.
"The loads that each universal carrier could carry was listed in the pilot's notes as either a 250 lb "B" or semi-armour piercing (SAP) bomb or a 100 lb anti-submarine (AS) bomb or a bomb container. It was cleared for dive-bombing up to angles of 70 degrees."
I've confirmed this in numerous sources, including Peter C. Smith's "Skua!", Jackson's Blackburn Aircraft Since 1909, contemporary publications, and photographs showing the bomb carriers for the 250 lb. bombs inboard of the light bomber carriers (4x30 lbs per side).
The external fuel tank was purely a prototype and never saw operation service. A good thing, since the Roc would have been still slower than the Skua. (Dinger states, "However, this belly tank was by no means a standard fittment and it is not mentioned at all in the Roc pilot's notes." That's putting it mildly.)
While the range of the Roc was substantially less than that of the Skua, I believe that it was 20% less, not 50%. Smith gives the Skua a range of 760 miles and the Roc. Mixed Skua/Roc squadrons in 1940 operating from Hatston against Norway noted that the Rocs did not have the range to make it all the way to Norway and back, but there is not indication that the Roc's range was only 50% that of the Skua. ("The newly-formed 806 Squadron was assigned a number of Rocs and took them up to Hatston, however, they did not have enough range to allow them to accompany the squadron's Skuas on raids to the Bergen and Stavanger areas.")
Prospective part of a series of videos for YouTube. They'll probably never come to fruition.
| Maker | Maker | Blackburn | Blackburn | Blackburn | Blackburn |
| Name | Name | Roc | Roc | Skua | Skua |
| Type | Type | Fighter | Fighter | Dive Bomb. | Fighter |
| Engine | Number | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
| Engine | Make | Perseus XII | Perseus XII | Perseus XII | Perseus XII |
| Engine | Cooling | Air | Air | Air | Air |
| Power | Horse Power | 905 | 905 | 905 | 905 |
| Power | At Height (feet) | 6,500 | 6,500 | 6,500 | 6,500 |
| Size | Span feet | 46' | 46' | 46' | 46' |
| Size | Length feet | 35' | 35' | 35' | 35' |
| Size | Height feet | 12.5' | 12.5' | 12.5' | 12.5' |
| Size | Wing Area (square feet) | 319 | 319 | 319 | 319 |
| Men | Crew | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 |
| Armament | Forward Wings | 0 | 0 | 4 Browning | 4 Browning |
| Armament | Dorsal | 4 Browning | 4 Browning | 1 Lewis | 1 Lewis |
| Armament | Rounds Per Machine Gun Forward | 0 | 0 | 600 | 600 |
| Armament | Rounds Per Machine Gun Dorsal | 600 | 600 | 6 Mags. | 6 Mags. |
| Bomb Load | Normal (pounds) | 500 | 500 | 500 | 500 |
| Bomb Load | Maximum (pounds) | 500 | 500 | 500 | 500 |
| Weight | Tare (pounds) | 6,121 | 6,121 | 5,839 | 5,839 |
| Normal | Weight (pounds) | 7,044 | 7,044 | 8,215 | 8,115 |
| Normal | Take Off (Over 50 ft) (Yards) | 546 | 546 | 670 | 650 |
| Normal | Landing (Over 50 ft) (Yards) | 650 | 650 | ||
| Normal | Climb to Height (feet) | 10,000 | 10,000 | 15,000 | 15,000 |
| Normal | Climb to Height Time (Mins) | 14.1 | 14.1 | 22 | 21 |
| Normal | Service Ceiling (Feet) | 17,500 | 17,500 | 19,000 | 19,300 |
| Normal | Maximum Speed (m.p.h) | 223 | 223 | 212 | 213 |
| Normal | Max Speed Height (Feet) | 10,000 | 10,000 | 15,000 | 15,000 |
| Normal | Cruising Speed (m.p.h) | 191 | 191 | 193 | 194 |
| Normal | Cruise Speed Height | 10,000 | 10,000 | 15,000 | 15,000 |
| Normal | Bomb Load (pounds) | 0 | 0 | 500 | |
| Normal | 50 Minutes allowance Range (miles) | 507 | 507 | 466 | 906 |
| Normal | 50 Minutes allowance Endurance Hours | 2.66 | 2.66 | 2.93 | 4.67 |
| Normal | Fuel (for range, pounds) | 735 | 735 | 706 | 1,080 |
| Normal | Fuel (for allowance, pounds) | 142 | 142 | 142 | 142 |
| Normal | Fuel (Total, pounds) | 877 | 877 | 848 | 1,222 |
| Normal | Fuel (Total, Gallons) | 127 | 127 | 163 | 163 |
| Normal | Miles per 100 pounds fuel | 69 | 69 | 80.2 | 83.9 |
| Extended | Overload Weight (pounds) (Max bombs (or Fuel if same)) | 8,473 | 7,944 | 8,625 | 8,115 |
| Extended | Take Off (Over 50 ft) (Yards) | 620 | 546 | 770 | 650 |
| Extended | Climb to Height (feet) | 10,000 | 10,000 | 15,000 | 15,000 |
| Extended | Climb to Height Time (mins) | 17.3 | 14 | 25 | 21 |
| Extended | Service Ceiling | 16,200 | 17,500 | 18,000 | 19,300 |
| Extended | Maximum Bombs (Cruise) | ||||
| Extended | Speed (m.p.h) | 175 | n/a | 190 | |
| Extended | Height (feet) | 10,000 | n/a | 15,000 | |
| Extended | Bomb Load (pounds) | 500 | n/a | 500 | |
| Extended | Range (50 mins allow.) (miles) | 485 | n/a | 890 | |
| Extended | Endurance (50 mins allow.) Hrs | 2.77 | n/a | 4.7 | |
| Extended | Fuel (for range, pounds) | 735 | n/a | 1,080 | |
| Extended | Fuel (for allowance, pounds) | 142 | n/a | 142 | |
| Extended | Fuel (Total, pounds) | 877 | n/a | 1,222 | |
| Extended | Fuel (Total, Gallons) | 117 | n/a | 163 | |
| Extended | Miles per 100 pounds of fuel | 66 | n/a | 82.5 | |
| Extended | Maximum Fuel Capacity (Gallons) | 117 | 117 | 163 | 163 |
| Extended | Maximum Fuel (Economical) | ||||
| Extended | Speed (m.p.h) | 144 | 144 | 157 | 156 |
| Extended | Height (feet) | 10,000 | 10,000 | 15,000 | 15,000 |
| Extended | Bomb Load (pounds) | 500 | 0 | 500 | |
| Extended | Range (50 mins allow.) (miles) | 575 | 642 | 980 | 1,025 |
| Extended | Endurance (50 mins allow.) Hrs | 4 | 4.45 | 6.25 | 6.57 |
| Extended | Fuel (for range, pounds) | 735 | 735 | 1,080 | 1,080 |
| Extended | Fuel (for allowance, pounds) | 142 | 142 | 142 | 142 |
| Extended | Fuel (Total, pounds) | 877 | 877 | 1,222 | 1,222 |
| Extended | Fuel (Total, Gallons) | 117 | 117 | 163 | 163 |
| Extended | Miles per 100 pounds of fuel | 78.3 | 87 | 91 | 95 |
A D4Y sank the Princeton killing 108 of her crew and another 233 aboard the Birmingham when the Princeton exploded. A D4Y planted two bombs on the Franklin causing immense damage and killing ~ 800 Americans. Considering the odds facing them those are quite the achievements.But the issue isn't so much heavy loads as range. I think they only made a few Ju87R right?
Weight is one thing, weight + a lot of drag is more of a problem. The D was better protected for sure (twin guns with very high ROF are helpful) but it also had less drag, they rearranged the radiators etc. Drag also effects range, i.e. your engine may have 1,400 hp or whatever, but it's going to be working that much harder on a plane with fixed undercarriage and big old flaps sticking out in the slipstream.
D4Y definitely had problems, though they did hit ships with them. Their biggest problem was their fighter escort couldn't really cope with F6 and F4U. B7 was excellent but came too late, and the Vindicator may not have been fast enough to contend with Bf 109s (I'm not certain it was, given fighter escort, but it may have been) but all three had better range than a Ju-87B or D.
In the words of the Damage Report she was bombed at "an inopportune time", while she was preparing to launch a strike with many aircraft fuelled and bombed up both on the flight deck and in the hangar. Shades of the Japanese carriers at Midway. Again from the Damage ReportA D4Y planted two bombs on the Franklin causing immense damage and killing ~ 800 Americans. Considering the odds facing them those are quite the achievements.
That Japanese D4Y did not sink the Princeton as her Damage Report makes clear. Para 11A D4Y sank the Princeton killing 108 of her crew and another 233 aboard the Birmingham when the Princeton exploded.