Reluctant Poster
Staff Sergeant
- 1,464
- Dec 6, 2006
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If we going to split hairs the SBDs never sank any carriers at Midway. They were all put down by Japanese torpedoes.That Japanese D4Y did not sink the Princeton as her Damage Report makes clear. Para 11
"11. Even after the explosion of the bombs in the torpedo stowage, the ship was apparently still seaworthy but damage received by the escorting ships and the tactical situation precluded further salvage efforts."
As a result the cruiser Reno was ordered to sink her. She fired two torpedoes one of which reportedly hit Princeton's forward magazine and sinking her.
Damage Report here
USS Princeton CVL23 War Damage Report No. 62
CONFIDENTIAL U.S.S. Princeton (CVL23) Loss In Action Battle for Leyte Gulf 24 October 1944 The Chief of Naval Operations directs that this report be shown only to those persons to whom the report would be of value in the performance of their duties. Steps shall be taken accordingly to insure...www.history.navy.mil
Edit photo of her from Birmingham showing extent of flight deck damage and with the fires seemingly under control.
View attachment 698897
Exactly!If we going to split hairs the SBDs never sank any carriers at Midway. They were all put down by Japanese torpedoes.
Ah Ha, the true weakness of the Japanese revealed!!!!If we going to split hairs the SBDs never sank any carriers at Midway. They were all put down by Japanese torpedoes.
In his book, Carrier Admiral, Jocko Clark wrote, "to sink a ship you need to let water in"it's true dive bombers tended to cripple rather than sink big warships. And they had trouble hitting smaller ones. But major enemy warships being crippled is a pretty good outcome.
A simplistic quote. There was often several ways to get the job done.In his book, Carrier Admiral, Jocko Clark wrote, "to sink a ship you need to let water in"
It very much depends on the dive bomber and the pilot. First, an unladen dive bomber will tend to have low wing loading and high power:weight ratio, so it may be quite manoeuvrable, second, look at the A-36, which was from what I've read both an effective dive bomber and, unladen, quite capable of dealing with Axis fighters. It's fighterHow would a dive bomber fare any better than a Fairey Battle or indeed a Stuka?
One wonders how many of those ships hit near the stern were hit there because target speed was underestimated. One also wonders how many ships would have been sunk if those magnetic fuzes actually worked and those under-keel detonations happened."Blowing off the bow was still possible as was the stern (seems like a lot of ships got hit in the stern?)"
Seems like you're asking why the majority got hit in the stern.
Taking out the stern takes out both propulsion and steering, thus the ship can't move and/or maneuver.
A good smack to the rudder is what did in The Bismark.
Successfully hitting a ship with an air launched torpedo was not a simple task and it required constant training. The RN developed a simulator to assist in this. The torpedo itself was a complex weapon. Figure in sea conditions, the enemy shooting back and maneoevering while all this is going on, simply adds to the problem.One wonders how many of those ships hit near the stern were hit there because target speed was underestimated. One also wonders how many ships would have been sunk if those magnetic fuzes actually worked and those under-keel detonations happened.
Or range was underestimated (dropped too early?)One wonders how many of those ships hit near the stern were hit there because target speed was underestimated. One also wonders how many ships would have been sunk if those magnetic fuzes actually worked and those under-keel detonations happened.
Or the ship was evading?Or range was underestimated (dropped too early?)
I think the only carrier sunk by dive bombers is Hermes.If we going to split hairs the SBDs never sank any carriers at Midway. They were all put down by Japanese torpedoes.
If you force your opponent to scuttle, I count that as a sinking.