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Also, I mentioned two generations, 1939-42, then '42-45.
Not until it was fitted with the two stage merlin.The British did have a superior escort fighter, it is called the P51. It was conceived from a British specification or order.
The MkIII was fitted with a merlin 60 as a test bed aircraft, it was faster, harder rolling and had superior aerodynamics than any other model, I could have had a 96G main, 50G leading edge, rear 66G tanks plus 90G drop tank, right at max take off weight but so was many other fighters during the war, it would have plenty of rangeSpitfires all the way?
Engine in 1939 and up to the late summer of 1940 is Merlin X (installed on the basic Spitfire I airframe), swap to the Merlin XX (on Spitfire III, since this one offers lower drag and more fuel by almost 20%). Start with 2-pitch props, switch to constant-speed types by early 1940. Sprinkle the engines with pressure-injection carbs by late 1939 (+10 mph, better ceiling, no negative G problems) and by more streamilned exhausts (extra 7-8 mph) - just copy the what the Bf 109E, He 112B and Ju 87B had.
1942 should see the 2-stage Merlins entering the stage, even if that means that Wellington VI does not materialize. Extra fuel at the leading edges.
Fuel - at least 30 imp gals tank behind the pilot before 1942, once the 2-stage engines are available move to a 50 gal tank. Try to copy the tank idea from Bf 109s by 1943 for less CoG-sensitive rear tankage? That will require shuffling of the controls/rods/lines under and behind the pilot.
Drop tanks at all the times, by 1942 try to have the American 150/165 US gal (roughly 135-140 imp gals) tanks as used on P-38.
Guns - the 8 .303s will do for a good part of the war for an escort fighter. No Hispanos before these are fully debugged and belt-fed, two cannons + two .50s after that will do for the duration of the war.
The 2-stage Griffon is nice-to have by mid-1944, but not necessary? Too bad there was no Griffon with a nice, big 1-stage S/C for 1943 and on.
There are a number of threads on this. Some quite lengthy. Some of it can be boiled down to year/s and two time periods are nowhere near enough. Using the Spitfire to illustrate the problems.I know that there'll be some variables here, namely time period and such, but what if the British had their own long range escort fighter? Naturally, it can't really be a Spitfire or a Hurricane since they're too short legged early war (and Spitfire for most of the war). But, from say 39-42, 42-45, what would a single seat, long range high performance escort fighter be like? The biggest thing as far as spec is enough fuel internally to have a 700-800 mile range, and the ability to use drop tanks. It also has to be heavily armed for the period (which from 42-45 basically means 4x20mm cannons), and be a great dogfighter per tactics of the period. This will address one of the few shortcomings of the P-51, given that it was a bit heavy due to being built to outdated USAAF load requirements (largely resolved with the H variant, but that doesn't really count here).
So I'll open the floor to the forum members to discuss.
1940. more use of constant speed props and in June the two pitch props are gone from service squadrons (OTUs may be different). Limited self-sealing tanks. armor and BP glass in most cases. Merin XII engines show up in mid year, 100 octane fuel is pretty much standard, at least for most of Britain. Air fields are still being worked on but they are expanding.
Two speed superchargers (Merlin XX) are in production but you have to fight BC for them, Hurricanes get them in Sept to keep them competitive with the 109E-3/4. cannon are trialed (not well)
Test aircraft was 2 minutes and 48 seconds slower to 20,000ft than the 1st Spit IIA tested at Boscombe Down. It took 4 mins 30 seconds more to go from zero to 25,000ft.
Climb at 25,000ft was 1050fpm while the standard IIA could climb at 1600fpm.
Even with a a better tank (internal) that is a significant handicap.
Interestingly, (just for stats) the Hawker Typhoon had pretty long range when fitted with drop tanks, as did the Tempest and Fury/Sea Fury. However, the Typhoon was intended to be an interceptor (and ended up only good at that at low/medium altitudes), and the Tempests and Sea Fury weren't insanely good at very high altitudes, either.
Merlin X engines in the Whitley's and in a few Halifax's. (around 75) and about 400 Wellingtons (Wellington II first flew in March 1939)The 2-speed supercharged Merlin X was from 1939? It provides a bit better power than the Merlin III at all altitudes.
Fighter Command actually needs to fight themselves to get the Merlin XX - there was zero Merlin XXs on bombers? Main users were Hurricanes, Defiants and Beaufighters.
Having top-tier engines improves the speed and RoC, and Spitfire was not getting these until second half of 1942.
OTOH, it is to be expected that escort aircraft laden with fuel can't climb as fast as the point-defence siblings, if both were powered by the same engines.
This has been gone over in the earlier threads.. Interestingly, (just for stats) the Hawker Typhoon had pretty long range when fitted with drop tanks, as did the Tempest and Fury/Sea Fury
Spitfire was getting the best single stage single speed engines. Nobody had the two stage engines until the 2nd half of 1942. Or very few, there were only a bit over 60 high altitude Wellingtons built.
The original poster wants long range and maneuverability, not going to get with the original engines and fuel.
A Merlin 45 100 octane would give about 300-350hp for take-off over a Merlin III with 87 octane, and weighed within 10lbs. If you can't make a Spitfire V work as an escort fighter in late 1941 or beginning of 1942 then there isn't much hope for anything any earlier.
The Spitifre V can probably take on a late 109E, 109F may be a harder.
But you were thinking about it.I haven't suggested the Spitfire V anywhere in this thread.
But you were thinking about it.
Range is about source and destination. If the destination can't be reached, the escort fighter is of dubious utility.I wonder if I should re-word/refocus on "endurance" rather than "range". Range is of course the distance a plane can fly on fuel under whatever specified conditions. Endurance is how long it can fly under those same conditions, which accounts for take off, cruse, a certain amount of combat or loiter time, return and landing.
Namely in that case that increased internal fuel does give more options (partial fuel for interceptor missions, better carriage of bombs/rockets/ similar stores for short range ground attack/close support missions, etc).
Especially since I'm basically asking for not extending the range of say a Spitfire, but basically a clean sheet of paper design.
Climb doesn't matter because it'll already be at altitude when it enters enemy airspace, the P51 couldn't climb nor could any other fighter when loaded with fuel.Spit II with Merlin XII engine. It was high drag (tank was fixed) and hurt climb. Internal fuel would solve drag but not do a lot for the decrease in climb. It held 40 gallons which was not enough for even 600 miles range (you can't putz about flying at 210-220mph while escorting in enemy airspace).
Test aircraft was 2 minutes and 48 seconds slower to 20,000ft than the 1st Spit IIA tested at Boscombe Down. It took 4 mins 30 seconds more to go from zero to 25,000ft.
Climb at 25,000ft was 1050fpm while the standard IIA could climb at 1600fpm.
Even with a a better tank (internal) that is a significant handicap.