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They did, it was called the Spitfire MkIX and then the Mustang Mk III. The Spitfire was used to assist the USA until well into 1944. Mustang MkIIIs (P-51Bs) were assigned to the British before the USA settled on using the P-51Bs as a bomber escort themselves, so one of the jobs Hap Arnold had was to ask the British to use their Mustang IIIs on US raids. It was of course a rhetorical question, but it was done. Having a two stage Merlin available in 1942 doesnt mean you can commence mass raids. As far as I remember there were 6 squadrons of Spitfire Mk IXs operational at Dieppe (Aug 1942) The P-51 B started being produced in mid 1943 but there were only 100 in UK squadron service for big week Feb 1944.Again, nice thought but even though the Spitfire IX had the performance, it didn't have the range. The Spitfire was designed around a 500 mile or so range when it was first designed, and in terms of actual combat, never really got much better. Even the Griffon Spitfires only had enough fuel increases to keep the range to about 500 miles on typical combat missions.
So I ask the question: if the RAF wanted it, and by 1942 it was viable, why didn't they pursue it? Again, it almost seems that they didn't think a domestically produced aircraft of that type was viable, either though concept or being able to be built in England, or even if it was thought possible, no one was readily available to make it or design it.
In fairness to Britain, they did have smaller land mass than the US, less raw materials, fewer factories and a smaller population vs say the US. So that was probably part of the issue (industrial infrastructure). Of course, hindsight being 20/20, even in England there were underworked companies or those that were producing designs that weren't picked up (Boulton Paul, Westland, Airspeed, etc), but even those companies were also doing important subcontractor work for the RAF and RN.
It's almost like the Heinkel He-100 thread. It did, in altered form, almost make it into production. But in much modified form, and you'd have to wait for the Junkers Jumo 213 and Daimler-Benz DB603 engines to be produced in quantity That wasn't until 1944, and by then other designs and such took priority over the Heinkel P.1076..
But you're looking for a potential early war British built escort fighter.MB-3 was too big for the Merlin, which is why (as well as Sabre durability worries) the MB-5 used a Griffon.
Problem with most range figures is that they don't seem to account for reserve fuel (amount you want to have upon return for "just in case" issues) or allowances for combat time (15 min, 20 min, 30 min, etc).Compared with a lot of other threads, this one pretty 'straight' IMO
BTW - do you have a firm figure for a combat radius (not range) the British LR escort should be doing? 450, 500, 550, 600 miles, more?
I'm asking about combat radius, not range.Problem with most range figures is that they don't seem to account for reserve fuel (amount you want to have upon return for "just in case" issues) or allowances for combat time (15 min, 20 min, 30 min, etc).
As far as radius, for example, to get to Berlin from London roughly is about 600 miles at least.
Trying to drop 2000lb engines into a small airframe like the He 110 is a lot different than trying to drop a 2000lb engine into the Spitfire. The Spitfire is not known for being large but it was huge compared to the He 100.It's almost like the Heinkel He-100 thread. It did, in altered form, almost make it into production. But in much modified form, and you'd have to wait for the Junkers Jumo 213 and Daimler-Benz DB603 engines to be produced in quantity
A Spitfire Mk VIII/IX with 96G front tank, 42G upper 33G lower rear tank, use all the available space in the leading edges for a combined 50G and a 90G dropper. Warm up taxi take off and climb to 20-25 thousand feet over France on the rear upper 42G, switch to 90G dropper and fly as far as you want before dropping leaving 50G leading edge 96G main for combat and fly home with 33G rear in reserve. Your going to cover a lot of Germany with that aircraft but, and it's a big but, you need to get rid of Portal from the Air Ministry and have 2 stage 2 speed Merlins, if that doesn't happen you have what actually did happen, the Spitfire that never reached it's full potential.Again, my point of this thread is saying/asking what a British-built escort fighter would've been like.
No Allied aircraft could fly escort missions in '41-42', the Luftwaffe would have caught on quickly and jumped the escorts as soon as they crossed the channel when they were laden with fuel, you would have got a couple of raids in but that's it.I dont know that the British were firm in that belief, throughout 1941 and into 1942 the best Spitfires couldnt compete over France against the best LW fighters so it was impossible to contemplate escorting bombers to Germany.
The fighter bases were all on the coast, straight line to Berlin was 500 miles give or take.As far as radius, for example, to get to Berlin from London roughly is about 600 miles at least. Which doesn't count loiter/combat time, or desired reserve fuel
They certainly could, but not in the way they did it. They were especially capable once there is an overmatch in numbers from mid-1941 on, since LW left just a part of their fighters' strength west of Ruhr.No Allied aircraft could fly escort missions in '41-42', the Luftwaffe would have caught on quickly and jumped the escorts as soon as they crossed the channel when they were laden with fuel, you would have got a couple of raids in but that's it.
It would have been simpler to forget the 42G upper and build a 132G dropper.A Spitfire Mk VIII/IX with 96G front tank, 42G upper 33G lower rear tank, use all the available space in the leading edges for a combined 50G and a 90G dropper. Warm up taxi take off and climb to 20-25 thousand feet over France on the rear upper 42G, switch to 90G dropper and fly as far as you want before dropping leaving 50G leading edge 96G main for combat and fly home with 33G rear in reserve. Your going to cover a lot of Germany with that aircraft but, and it's a big but, you need to get rid of Portal from the Air Ministry and have 2 stage 2 speed Merlins, if that doesn't happen you have what actually did happen, the Spitfire that never reached it's full potential.
The vast bulk of Merlins and Spitfires were built during war, a period of a bit over five years. The Brits did pretty good.'The British built 20,000 spitfires…'
that was over a 10 year period
Meanwhile, NA built 17,000 P-51's in 4 years
Ditto the Merlin - 'The British made 150,000 hand fitted Merlins'
That was over a 14 year period
Meanwhile, Packard built 55,000 production engineered Merlins with gaskets in 4 years
An interesting aside, you could always tell which plane was fitted with a RR vs a Packard Merlin - there were always drip trays under the RR Merlins
Murica! Masters of production engineering.
American mass production doesnt impress me, only slightly better than a dozen British housewives in a cattle shed with chisels and rasps.The vast bulk of Merlins and Spitfires were built during war, a period of a bit over five years. The Brits did pretty good.
The Cobbler Elf Union would like to have a word...American mass production doesnt impress me, only slightly better than a dozen British housewives in a cattle shed with chisels and rasps.