Empire fighter program?

[Admiral Beez]

You need to be careful about what was known from intelligence sources about Japanese shipbuilding plans and not apply hindsight.

Agreed. We need interwar British foreign/diplomatic (MI6) and military (DMI) intelligence on Japan to be better. Ideally we can start with an earlier formation of MI10 with a dedicated Far East branch - a good catalyst is when Japan exits the WNT in 1936, so that preliminary info can be "carefully" shared at the 1937 Imperial Conference. Without better information we'll never get to an Empire fighter program before Dec 1941.

Australia in particular is behind the times. As it wasn't until autumn 1936 until CAC was founded under Canberra's goal of developing a self-sufficient aircraft industry. Mind you, India's HAL won't get started until 1940. In comparison, here in Canada we were rocking the 1930s aeroplane making biz with the likes of Canadian Vickers (founded 1923), Fairchild Aircraft (1920), Fleet Aircraft (1928), de Havilland Canada (1928) and Canadian Car & Foundry (CC&F), which flew its first Hawker Hurricane in Jan 1940.

Of note, until the mid to late 1940s Australia had no formal foreign intelligence service whatsoever. Canada still doesn't have one outside of the CSE's listening posts.

 

[Zmauky]

There is another possibility. And that is an import. We know that the UK has been negotiating with Italy to import aircraft. I'm not sure, but I assume that those 300 pieces of Reggiana Re 2000 were intended for the Near) Far East, Australia ... ?

 

[Admiral Beez]

There is another possibility. And that is an import. We know that the UK has been negotiating with Italy to import aircraft. I'm not sure, but I assume that those 300 pieces of Reggiana Re 2000 were intended for the Near) Far East, Australia ... ?

Mussolini was DAF to declare war on France and Britain in 1940. Italy could have made like a Swedish robber baron selling arms to both sides. Unlike Nazi Germany, Italy had a functioning economy but with an underdeveloped industrial sector. So remain neutral and yes, sell those Re.2000s and much more to Britain.

With a neutral Italy we'll not see British forces sent into Greece or North Africa. But that doesn't mean they're free for Malaya and Burma, since the Germans now have a better chance at an earlier and more focused Barbarossa. OTOH, an early German failure in Russia could free up British forces before Japan is ready to ignite the PTO. And all the while Mussolini can rake in the £s.

 

[MiTasol]

Australia in particular is behind the times. As it wasn't until autumn 1936 until CAC was founded under Canberra's goal of developing a self-sufficient aircraft industry. Mind you, India's HAL won't get started until 1940. In comparison, here in Canada we were rocking the 1930s aeroplane making biz with the likes of Canadian Vickers (founded 1923), Fairchild Aircraft (1920), Fleet Aircraft (1928), de Havilland Canada (1928) and Canadian Car & Foundry (CC&F), which flew its first Hawker Hurricane in Jan 1940.

Of note, until the mid to late 1940s Australia had no formal foreign intelligence service whatsoever. Canada still doesn't have one outside of the CSE's listening posts.

CAC was the brainchild of Essington Lewis who visited Japan on one of his world tours to discover the latest steel making developments for the company (BHP) that he managed.

He immediately started to convince other major Australian manufacturing companies and the government that Japan was preparing for war and was far more advanced technologically than anyone realised.

The first result was BHP and several other companies joined to create CAC and he funded a tour by Laurence Wackett and some RAAF officers to determine what was being built in other countries and what could be built in Aus under licence in order to enable Australia to be able to defend itself.

He also immediately started BHP on a developing the necessary capabilities for manufacturing the specialised steels used in weapons production and expanded the company in preparation for what he saw was coming. He was a major force in causing the UAP government of the time to start weapons production and when the UAP was replaced by the ALP he continued in his roles in those fields.

For a good summary of his actions read the book The Steel-Master: a life of Essington Lewis by Geoffrey Blainey. There are several other books on him but that is the only one I have (somewhere in my mountains of books)

For a quick summary read wiki or similar web sites

Incidentally he was an old school CEO and never took a wage more than 30 times his lowest paid workers, despite the board wanting to pay him far more many times over his career.

 

[MiTasol]

I forgot to add that during the Wackett teams evaluation of aircraft to build in Australia Britain started by suggesting Aus could assemble Tiger Moths and then a number of more modern aircraft like the Fairey Battle.

After the team chose the NA-33 which became the Wirraway after redesign in Aus (with the vast majority of the redesign being replacement of US alloys with British alloys and replacement of all standard hardware with AGS hardware) the British government suddenly decided that Australia should build 90 Bristol Beaufort's for the RAF in Singapore, and the Aus government also ordered 90 identical aircraft.

The reason for the redesign of the NA-33 is that Aus had to pay import duty on any US designed components and components imported from the US. Building the engines here and changing the metal specs on as many airframe components as practical eliminated that import duty.

Essington Lewis thereby forced Australia to have a viable aircraft industry prior to the outbreak of the Pacific war.

I have a strong suspicion that the reason the CAC team were able to design and build the Boomerang so fast is that CAC already had some detailed knowledge of the NA-50 fighters built for Peru and redesigned it to use the Hudson R-1830 engines and powerplants that CAC were building in Melbourne for Lockheed Burbank and for the Australian Beaufort. I do not know what sort of a streamline fairing the NA-50 used so I do not know if it used a wooden monocoque like the Boomerang or if that concept came from the NA-50. What little data I have seen on the NA-50 shows it did not have the large fuel tank behind the pilot that the Boomerang had and that it only had two fuselage mounted guns so the Boomerang might have just been inspired by the knowledge that the NA-50 existed and was in service. It is also possible it was influenced by the later NA-68 but that aircraft has metal fuselage fairings and the 20mm cannon are underslung instead of buried inside the wing so I consider that far less likely.

 

[z42]

I suspect the concept of an "empire fighter" doesn't make sense in a time when aircraft technology was advancing as rapidly as it was in the 1930'ies. Even many fighters ostensibly designed as the best possible were already obsolete at launch (Gloster Gladiator, looking at you). I fear the by the time you have designed and tested the aircraft, setup factories with tooling etc. (possibly in some far away colony rather than at home in the UK!) for volume production, the bespoke empire fighter will already be hopelessly outclassed. Instead I'd suggest using the previous generation of the frontline fighters. For instance, when the UK squadrons equip with Hurricanes and Spitfires, pack up the Gladiators and send them to the colonies. Another advantage of this approach is that the spare parts supply for the old machines still exists, maybe even some small-scale production capacity. And hopefully most of the initial issues inevitable with any new aircraft have long since been addressed, so the crews out in the colonies get their hands on well debugged equipment that (hopefully!) doesn't need constant handholding by the manufacturer.

 

[MiTasol]

Admittedly three Gladiators kept the Germans at bay for longer than expected but against the Japanese fighters I suspect they would have been shot down far earlier.

Like nearly all latest generation fighters of the day the German fighters were designed with speed and climb as prime requirements so were much less nimble than the Gladiator but for the Japanese fighters that nimbleness was a prime requirement.

 

[z42]

Admittedly three Gladiators kept the Germans at bay for longer than expected but against the Japanese fighters I suspect they would have been shot down far earlier.

Like nearly all latest generation fighters of the day the German fighters were designed with speed and climb as prime requirements so were much less nimble than the Gladiator but for the Japanese fighters that nimbleness was a prime requirement.

I suspect when the Japanese were stomping through SEA the Brits would have needed Spitfires to stand up to the Zeros. Gladiators and Hurricanes would have been slaughtered just like the Buffalos were historically.

So assuming they don't figure out how to produce Spitfires fast enough to afford to send some of them to SEA, the outcome won't be any different.

 

[EwenS]

Admittedly three Gladiators kept the Germans at bay for longer than expected but against the Japanese fighters I suspect they would have been shot down far earlier.

Like nearly all latest generation fighters of the day the German fighters were designed with speed and climb as prime requirements so were much less nimble than the Gladiator but for the Japanese fighters that nimbleness was a prime requirement.

Ah the enduring myth of Faith, Hope & Charity on Malta.

Truth is Italy declared war on 10 June 1940, the first 6 Hurricanes arrived 21/22 June with the Sea Gladiators only obtaining their first kill on the afternoon of the 22nd. Previous claims proved inaccurate. The Italian SM.79 bombers generally proved too fast and, when caught, too robust for the 4x0.303" carried by the Sea Gladiators.

https://www.key.aero/article/real-story-maltas-gloster-gladiators

The next batch of 12 Hurricanes left Britain on 20 July on the carrier Argus, and were flown off to the island on 2 Aug. 261 squadron formed on the island on the same day, absorbing the existing fighter flights along with the new arrivals. Ground crews and equipment were brought in by submarine. Argus made another delivery in Nov (only 4 of 12 arrived, the others ditching when they ran out of fuel). While others were flown in from Egypt.

The Luftwaffe didn't turn up over Malta until Jan 1941.

 

[EwenS]

I suspect the concept of an "empire fighter" doesn't make sense in a time when aircraft technology was advancing as rapidly as it was in the 1930'ies. Even many fighters ostensibly designed as the best possible were already obsolete at launch (Gloster Gladiator, looking at you). I fear the by the time you have designed and tested the aircraft, setup factories with tooling etc. (possibly in some far away colony rather than at home in the UK!) for volume production, the bespoke empire fighter will already be hopelessly outclassed. Instead I'd suggest using the previous generation of the frontline fighters. For instance, when the UK squadrons equip with Hurricanes and Spitfires, pack up the Gladiators and send them to the colonies. Another advantage of this approach is that the spare parts supply for the old machines still exists, maybe even some small-scale production capacity. And hopefully most of the initial issues inevitable with any new aircraft have long since been addressed, so the crews out in the colonies get their hands on well debugged equipment that (hopefully!) doesn't need constant handholding by the manufacturer.

Using previous generation as "Empire" fighters is only possible if production of new types is adequate to fill all the front line squadrons, which it wasn't. Previous generations usually went to overseas theatres as replacements for even older types.

RAF Gladiators got sent to Norway in April 1940. They still formed a significant element of the fighter force in the Middle East into 1941, fighting in North & East Africa and Greece.

The fighters the Gladiator replaced were the Hawker Fury & Gloster Gauntlet, but even some of the latter remained on the front line in Britain in Sept 1939 (616 finally got Spitfires in Oct) and in the Middle East, while the last of the former only left front line service in Jan 1939.

With an expanding RAF these old types also proved useful in a training role.

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

During the various Imperial Conferences in the 1930's Britain made it increasingly clear the Dominions at least should develop their defence industries and not rely on Britain. A stark example is when the Australians tried for extra aircraft in 1938 and ended up having to lease/charter 40 Anson, they were built September 1938 to February 1939 (Arrived December 1938 to April 1939), the RAAF to pay for freight to and from the UK (around £45,000). There were essentially no even "almost modern" aircraft the RAF was prepared to release until it was ready to take on an exaggerated idea of Luftwaffe size.

In 1935 Essington Lewis proposed to build aircraft and their engines in Australia, he was pushing an agreeable idea, the Commonwealth Government convened conferences as well as industry undertaking discussions, but it was a case of form company first, orders second. The formation of the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation was on 17 October 1936, taking over the Tugan aircraft company along with its personnel, building a new factory in Melbourne and taking over on loan Victorian Government land. Essington Lewis was Chairman of the company and Lawrence Wackett was appointed Manager. The authorised capital was £1,000,000 paid up to £600,000. The shareholders were

Broken Hill Proprietary Company Ltd £200,000
Broken Hill Associated Smelters Pty Ltd £150,000
Imperial Chemical Industries of Australia and New Zealand £90,000
General Motors-Holden's Ltd £60,000
The Electrolytic Zinc Company of Australasia Pty Ltd £50,000
Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd £50,000

General Motors (owner of North American) was originally going to be a one third owner but reduced under pressure. British companies were worried trade secrets could leak to the US via Australia.

The long term aim was complete manufacture of aircraft by Australia using mostly Australian raw materials. In February 1936 Wing Commander L.J. Wackett, Squadron Leader H.C. Harrison (technical man) and Squadron Leader Murphy, RAAF Chief Workshop Operator were sent on a 5 month tour to visit overseas aircraft industries to determine what design to manufacture. Italy, France, Germany, Czechoslovakia, Holland, Britain and the United States were visited.

The framework being it was expected it would take 5 years from industry initiation before manufacture of a first line defence aircraft could be made (under peacetime conditions), so it was best to start with a simpler design that would a) use Australian raw materials, b) establish manufacture that would be applicable to other aircraft types, c) achieve being able to manufacture a range of aircraft types as quickly as possible, d) introducing designs that would lend themselves to good jigging and tooling so in an emergency production of larger quantities could be carried out by semi skilled labour. A radial engine was preferred as easier to build.

The first design should use as much steel as possible given 1936 Australia had plenty of steel but lacked reliable supply of non ferrous alloys, aluminium and magnesium. The design should be made by regular workshop personnel given the wartime need to significantly increase output.and should incorporate features likely to be standard practice for some time, a) stressed skin wing and construction, b) all metal construction, c) low wing monoplane type, d) retractable undercarriage, e) variable pitch propeller. The hope was after learning by building the trainer a modern fighter could be placed into production.

The result was the choice of the North American design, Britain had no type that fitted the criteria. British types of better performance in terms of defence capabilities had not been successfully and easily produced in quantities. The British offered the Fairey Battle light bomber (production started in May 1937) and the Westland Lysander Army Co-operation aircraft (production began in May 1938). The North American design first production, as the BT-9, was in July 1936, the single row Wasp engine it used of around 500 HP could be turned into a 1,000 HP twin Wasp with some redesign but built using the same machine tools and fixtures.

The British and local push back against building a US design was considerable, until Britain ordered Harvards in mid 1938 and also the Hudsons.

In January 1937 the Commonwealth Government indicated it would order the North American design as the Wirraway, subject to the usual contract negotiations being successful. Construction of the Melbourne factory began in April 1937 and the initial buildings were ready for occupation in September, further expansions occurred pre war, a near doubling of the floor space. An example of the fixed undercarriage version of the design arrived in Australia in August 1937, one with retractable undercarriage in September. An order for 40 Wirraway including engines was approved in January 1938 and the contract signed in April 1938, the Wirraway name made public on 6 April 1938, a second order for 60 Wirraway approved in September 1938, a third for 32 in June 1939. The first engine was built in January 1939, the first Wirraway flight on 27 March 1939, official delivery in July, by end July 8 engines had been officially produced, by the end of 1939, 33 Wirraway and 36 engines. By March 1940 a hundred engines had been ordered from the US to supplement local production, the first of these arriving in mid June 1940, the last 20 in September 1941, by which stage 317 engines had been produced locally. Wirraway orders had increased to 232 by end January 1940 then to 481 on October 1940, further orders were made after 1941.

According to Keith Meggs the main design changes made were an increase in all up weight by 10%, new fuselage design, British screw threads, use only one rivet type, tail strengthening, fully screened electrical system, twin forward firing guns, more radio gear, provision for 500 pound bombs under the wings, 3 blade constant speed propeller, camera mountings plus various other changes to suit the RAAF.

In January 1939 an Australian aluminium casting foundry began production, moving onto magnesium and bronze castings.

Australian requirements were 1,400 Beaufort plus 250 Boomerang engines, plus spares, but built 870 Twin Wasp and to do that had to freeze design to the S1C3G version. As far as I know the Boomerang used imported engines for the better altitude performance.

Australia built 680 single Wasp versus 717 Wirraway.

Canada chose to import engines from the US.

In early 1939 a British mission to Australia, consisting of Sir S. Hardman Lever as leader, Colonel Sir D. Banks, Permanent Under Secretary of State for Air, Air Marshall Sir A.L. Longmore, and 4 technical experts, L.C. Ord, A.C. Boddis, C. Howarth and E.S. Jackson, arrived for an inspection, submitting their report on 18 March 1939, with the British Government confirming general agreement with it on the 24th, the same day as the Australian government announced the decision to produce Beauforts in Australia. Bristol had actually received an instruction to proceed on 26 January. The proposed plan was to build 180 Beauforts in Australia, firstly 90 for the RAF then 90 for the RAAF, costs to be equally divided, first machines delivered in 1940, production rising to 20 per month in September 1941 under peace time single shift conditions. The dates make it fairly clear key decisions had already been made. Australia set up a new organisation the Aircraft Production Branch of the Department of Supply and Development, rather than use CAC, which created delays due to inexperience. Australia had ordered 50 Bolingbroke from Bristol in March 1937, changed to Beaufort when the Bolingbroke was cancelled and increased to 90 aircraft in August 1938, this order was cancelled in stages June 1939 to April 1940.

Keith Meggs indicates CAC had no knowledge of the P-64 and other fighter ideas designed by North American when designing the Boomerang, the CAC team was comparing themselves to the Brewster Buffalo. Parts from the Wirraway and the CA-4 bomber (First flight September 1941) were used.

 

[MiTasol]

Keith Meggs was writing a great history of CAC the last time I met him (about 87-88) and I was lucky enough to read the draft. His research was extremely detailed and if he said that there was no knowledge of the NA-50 and -88 I would take that as gospel.