Build a better Sea Hurricane 1938

[special ed]

No. In Italy a USN F4U jock took off with wings folded and realised it and came around, may have landed, as I can't remember the end of the flight. The amazing thing was, how could he not have noticed the wings overhead. General thought was, too much "night before".

 

[Shortround6]

There was at least 1 F8 Crusader that did that in Italy 23 Aug 1960 at Napoli Capodichino.
Used full after burner.

Chances of an F4U taking off with wing folded?

And pilot not noticing?
F8 on the other hand

Photo shopped or real?
Wing tips are much smaller and running light in afterburner there seems to be enough thrust?

 

[Admiral Beez]

Finally got around to copying some of my old files and transferring them to my laptop.

Here are a couple of the side-view drawings of my notional SeaHurricane Mk III. As I mentioned in my post "Build a better Sea Hurricane 1938" the overall foot print would be 31' 2"L x 18' 6"W x 13' 1"H, so in the hangar the wings could only be folded or unfolded with them between the deep support beams.

View attachment 789263
View attachment 789264

Your fold proposal reminds me of the later Seafires. Any chance your Sea Hurricane can have hydraulic folding wings?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2xd8zoFaM

 

[ThomasP]

Hydraulics could be fitted, but is the added weight, complexity, maintenance, and increased risk of damage and failure worth it?

 

[ThomasP]

Hey EwanS,

Sorry, I missed your question until now.

re

By how much does the overall height exceed 16ft (RN inter-war hangar height on most carriers) during the folding / unfolding process?

Nominal height with the outer wing panels vertical was 16' 3.5".

 

[Admiral Beez]

Hydraulics could be fitted, but is the added weight, complexity, maintenance, and increased risk of damage and failure worth it?

It would, true. I wonder why they bothered with the Seafire.

As an aside, I found this folding setup interesting.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7AwbuNB3Q

 

[ThomasP]

I believe the TBD Devastator used a hydraulic wing fold. The next USN aircraft using hydraulics for the wing fold were the F4U and TBF.

 

[EwenS]

Hey EwanS,

Sorry, I missed your question until now.

re


Nominal height with the outer wing panels vertical was 16' 3.5".

So probably an opportunity to trim the wingtips a la F4U Corsair style to fit C&G, Ark Royal & 3 Illustrious class? 3 later ships are more of a problem.

 

[special ed]

There was at least 1 F8 Crusader that did that in Italy 23 Aug 1960 at Napoli Capodichino.
Used full after burner.

Chances of an F4U taking off with wing folded?
View attachment 789740
And pilot not noticing?
F8 on the other hand
View attachment 789741
Photo shopped or real?
Wing tips are much smaller and running light in afterburner there seems to be enough thrust?

Most probably what I remember. The time,1960, sounds right. However, the F4U with wings folded, reminds one of the Custer Channel wings.

 

[EwenS]

It would, true. I wonder why they bothered with the Seafire.

As an aside, I found this folding setup interesting.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF7AwbuNB3Q

Powered folding was only introduced early on in the Seafire 47 production run with its revised, stronger wing and much more power post WW2.

For the Mk.III weight additions from folding wing was bad enough without adding power folding. 15 & 17 simply carried over the Mk.III wing with minimum alteration.

 

[PAT303]

No. In Italy a USN F4U jock took off with wings folded and realised it and came around, may have landed, as I can't remember the end of the flight. The amazing thing was, how could he not have noticed the wings overhead. General thought was, too much "night before".

Sorry, calling BS.

 

[PAT303]

Your fold proposal reminds me of the later Seafires. Any chance your Sea Hurricane can have hydraulic folding wings?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_2xd8zoFaM

That pump sounds like it's running against the relief valve.

 

[Admiral Beez]

That pump sounds like it's running against the relief valve.

Agreed. It's probably meant to be operated when the engine's running.

 

[fannum]

No. In Italy a USN F4U jock took off with wings folded and realised it and came around, may have landed, as I can't remember the end of the flight. The amazing thing was, how could he not have noticed the wings overhead. General thought was, too much "night before".

Either a sea story that developed a life of it's own, or a typo ... hit a 4 when it should have been an 8.

I'll gladly eat my words (not the first time) if anyone is able to present good documentation ... not from a fictional article.

I know of at least three instances of F8U take offs with folded wings, all with reasonably successful landings. Photos exist of at least two, and Granpa Pettibone had a factual account in the official, vetted Naval Aviation News.

Finally, in the late '50s, surplus TBF/Ms were often used as fire fighting water bombers in SoCal, highly modified and stripped, removing all but front cockpit for simplicity and weight. I saw the aftermath of one at Hemet where the guy tried to take off in the gloom with the wings folded ... some what behind him, but not that far. It gained speed, torqued up on one wheel, and swerved into a rolling, aluminum destroying wreck. The immediately unemployed pilot survived.

 

[ThomasP]

There is also a story of an A-7E Corsair II taking off with its outer wings still folded.

"US Naval Aviator tells the story of when an A-7 pilot took off (and landed safely) with its Corsair II wings folded - The Aviation Geek Club"

The only accounts I could find are anecdotal and appear to be single sourced, and I could find no images.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

There was at least 1 F8 Crusader that did that in Italy 23 Aug 1960 at Napoli Capodichino.
Used full after burner.

Chances of an F4U taking off with wing folded?
View attachment 789740
And pilot not noticing?
F8 on the other hand
View attachment 789741
Photo shopped or real?
Wing tips are much smaller and running light in afterburner there seems to be enough thrust?

Those F4Us folded wings would create a LOT of downforce. It would never get off the deck.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Question for our AP Mechanics, how did the control wires keep tension when wings were folded and unfolded?

This is how the F4U Corsair transferred aileron movement across the wing fold. (Red rectangle in top photo added to highlight)

We were rather lucky that as we were wandering past, some guy was wiggling the stick.
Photos taken at Oshkosh last week.

 

[pinehilljoe]

This is how the F4U Corsair transferred aileron movement across the wing fold. (Red rectangle in top photo added to highlight)
View attachment 790984

View attachment 790985
We were rather lucky that as we were wandering past, some guy was wiggling the stick.
Photos taken at Oshkosh last week.

Obvious when you see it. The motion across the hinge line is transferred by linkages, and not wire rope. Thank you for sharing the photos! ( I design Satellites, not air craft)

 

[Simon Thomas]

There was also a Grumman Tracker there, it had two controls that crossed the joint. I assume that one was for aileron, but I have no idea what the second one would be for.

Edit: Maybe slats?

 

[ThomasP]

Spoilers?