Canada's Shame

Discussion in 'SitRep' started by Hunter368, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. Hunter368

    Hunter368 Active Member

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    Canada is having a hard time recruiting enough troops for its armed forces. Despite aggressive recruiting over the last four years (which brought in 20,000 new troops), there was a net gain of only 700 in the force of 56,000. Compared to the United States (which has ten times the population), Canada has only about half as many troops, per capita, on active duty. Yet the United States, despite being at war, is able to keep their force up to strength.

    The Canadian problem is political, and cultural. While the Canadian armed forces earned a reputation as tough and effective soldiers during the two World Wars and Korea, the country became less enthusiastic about supporting their military during the last few decades. This has reached the point where the armed forces feels resented and unwanted. Budgets were cut so much that Canada is a generation or more behind the United States in many categories of weapons and equipment.

    Canadian army troops have gotten a lot of work on peacekeeping missions, and saw combat in the 1991 Gulf War and Afghanistan, where they distinguished themselves. But for all that, the troops do not feel respected or appreciated in their own country, and this appears to be reflected in the recruiting numbers. Canada wants to increase military manpower 23 percent, but some new ideas, policies and attitudes will be need to carry that out. Conscription is not an option, as Canada has never used it in peacetime, and implemented it only with difficulty in wartime.
     
  2. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    They also saw combat in Bosnia
     
  3. Soundbreaker Welch?

    Soundbreaker Welch? Active Member

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    I haven't met too many Canadians, but I bet they are good fellows, like the ones on here.

    Are you happy though, that Canada's soldiers are not in Iraq?
     
  4. Instal

    Instal Member

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    Yes but only because there was no plan of how or when to get out. Had there been such a plan I think we should have gone as well.
     
  5. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    I used to fly with a Canadian in the US Army. He served with me in Germany, Kosovo and Iraq and is now an Apache Pilot. Good guy and good friend. He said he joined the US Army because he wanted to be in a "real" military and actually do something.
     
  6. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    That's funny I have a buddy, CH-53E driver, in the USMC that left Canada to join our military.
     
  7. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    There are a fair number of foriegn born in our military, at least there were when I was in. Had a number of Australian, Canadian and NZ types in the Navy back in the early 80s, some of them with experience in their miltary.
     
  8. Hunter368

    Hunter368 Active Member

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    I neighbor of mine, their son serves in the US Army.
     
  9. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    For sure - However, it is slightly different though when someone leaves their homeland specifically to join the US military.
     
  10. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Rather telling isn't it. How many Americans do you read about leaving the US to fight in foreign militaries? Certainly there are examples. But I ask the question in seriousness. I really do wonder.
     
  11. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    Lots of Americans have come to canada to fight and many stayed. Look at the Eagle Squadrons most of them came through the RCAF . Some of your better pilots like Gentile, Hofer, Blakesee were all members of the RCAF. in the neighbourhood of 35000
     
  12. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    You will not find many Americans serving in a foriegn military today.
     
  13. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    I would take their citizenship away cuz they sure ain't Canadian
     
  14. comiso90

    comiso90 Active Member

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    Why? Better chance to see action? Better benefits?

    .
     
  15. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    Better toys and better chance of action your guys are paid less then ours
     
  16. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Really are you sure about that? I am not saying you are wrong but the pay in the US Army sure as hell aint bad. As an E-5 who was married and on flight status I recieved a little over $2,000 every 2 weeks. Thats after taxes and that aint bad...

    You guys may make more but I believe once your taxes come out you see less than our guys see because we pay less taxes. Just a theory of mine, correct me if I am wrong.
     
  17. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    but thats about 5600canadian 5900us a month and it doesn't matter if your single or married thats the equivilant e5 with flight pay
    Regular Force Non Commissioned Members (NCM) Rates
     
  18. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Actually if you look at it, you dont really make more than the US Army.

    I just checked out your Army's website and they have a link to the pay rates.

    An E-5 makes 4797 Canadian Dollars which equals with todays exchange rate 4966 US Dollars. Average Federal Income Tax is 22 Percent which comes to a deduction of 1055 Canadian Dollars which comes out to a monthly salary of 3741 Canadian Dollars which equals 3873 US Dollars.

    You guys are payed every 2 weeks as well which comes out to a salary of aprox: 1870.50 Canadian Dollars which equals to 1936.64 US Dollars. After taxes as I said I saw on average 2183 US Dollars which comes to 2108 Canadian Dollars and a monthly salary of 4366 US Dollars or 4216 Canadian Dollars.
     
  19. Maestro

    Maestro Active Member

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    Ah... You are so right. A few factors can explain that...

    1a - Our politicians (since the end of the War of Korea) let down the army, cutting down it's budget every year. For that reason, we are about 30 years behind the US army on the technology side.

    1b - Not only are we late on technology, but the equipment we already have is in bad shape... very bad shape. F-18s are rusty and falling apart, Sea Kings can't stay in the air, submarines catch fire... I once saw a Canadian tank with a cookie plate underneath to prevent oil from falling on the floor of the show room. There is also the malfunctionning weapons... Remember that anti-tank rocket ? You want me to use one of those ? No f*cking way !

    2 - Actually, some (not all, fortunatly) of our commanding officers are brainwashed freaks (a little like De Gaulle was), running away when the bullets start to fly. The best example being General Romeo Dallaire, the Canadian commander of the peace keeping force in Rwanda, who let ten of his men (mostly, if not all of them, Belgians) being slaughtered there. Those poor blokes fought off the rebels as long as they could but had to surrender when they ran out of ammunitions. They were then beaten up to death with shovels and pickaxes. Making Dallaire look like a coward to the Belgians but was threated like a hero by our politicians (being awarded the Order of Canada and appointed as a senator).

    3 - Most of the guys (and gals) enlisting in the Canadian army today (I know some of them personnally), go there to "travel around the world" or to "help peoples who need it". They forgot the main point of being a soldier : killing. Basically, a soldier is a killer hired by a country to fight off an other one. This is very disturbing... because you don't know if the soldier next to you is one of them. Breaking down in tears as soon as someone starts shooting at them. Would you like to sit beside one of those ? Certainly not me !

    Rule 1 : If you wanna travel around the world, enlist in Air Canada. Not in the Canadian Army !

    Rule 2 : If you wanna help peoples who need it, enlist in the Salvation Army. Not in the Canadian Army !

    That's the main reasons why I won't enlist in the Canadian Army unless I'm forced to.

    Hey ! I got an idea ! Why not combine the US and Canadian Army ? The Canadian Army could become a kind of National Guard like the US have in some states.
     
  20. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    you might make e5 in less then 4 years but you'd have to be exceptional at which point thats a spec 2 with flight pay for another 300 not that anyone would be aircrew enlisted in that short period of time. Most of the FE's were about 10years in before they reached that plateau .
     
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