Court Rules Against Army Deserter

I say tatoo deserter across his forehead and make him pickup trash on the base

He's a deserter and coward, plain and simple. Certainly not a conscientious objector. Needs to be locked up and eventually DD'd out of the army.

TO

It's hard for me to entertain his point of view when he volunteered and an swore an oath to his country.

ToughOmbre said:

He's a deserter and coward, plain and simple. Certainly not a conscientious objector. Needs to be locked up and eventually DD'd out of the army.

TO

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RabidAlien said:

Yep, that's Old Testament. Basically it boils down to each individual's personal convictions whether or not they should/can serve or not. I served, and have been a Christian for many years, long before I "signed the dotted line". Someone suddenly becoming a concientious objector is better than becoming a deserter, true, but there are better ways of going about it. He could've asked for a transfer to a non-combat role, and the Army would've happily transferred him (nobody wants someone sharing a foxhole when they KNOW the guy is probably gonna run at the first funny-sounding noise). But there's a difference between coming to that conclusion after alot of heartfelt soul-searching, and getting scared when the orders come down and oh-by-the-way-I-can't-carry-a-rifle-all-of-a-sudden. That's just plain cowardice.

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Yes I agree this particular guy has burned hids bridge with his stunt. Thanks for answering my question R.A. I wondered if asking for non-combat was an option, and seems that is what he should have done.

Perhaps the army should look for some more innovative options in recruiting, rather than just tuition.

Here was something I thought about. Suppose the Army scales back on "free tuition" for sign-up, and instead offers intrest free loans. Then for every year of service some of the loan turns into a grant.

And how about this: For every year {or half year} spent IN A COMBAT ZONE the soldier or sailor gets say 4% or 5% reduction in his taxes FOR LIFE. {Say max out at 50%}. So that if somebody does a few tours, then comes back and starts a business they would pay less taxes for life because THEY HAVE ALREADY PAID.

I would far rather put funds into this kind of program rather than some of the other projects they throw money at.

Freebird said:

What exactly do you commit to when you "sign on the dotted line"? Do you promise to "carry a rifle"? Or is it only to "serve in the army"?

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When a person enlists or joins the military he promises to obey all lawful
orders given to him by any superior, be it an NCO, the Commander in Chief or
anyone in between. Those orders can be verbal or written. In his case I'm
sure they were written to be at at certain place, at a certain time, to
perform a certain duty

Now-a-days a Dishonorable Discharge doesn't really mean too much. I know,
for a fact, that the store manager of our local Sears Robucks got a BCD
from the Navy for theft of the US. Mail

He will probably not be tried, just given a COG Discharge.

Charles

ccheese said:

When a person enlists or joins the military he promises to obey all lawful
orders given to him by any superior, be it an NCO, the Commander in Chief or
anyone in between. Those orders can be verbal or written. In his case I'm
sure they were written to be at at certain place, at a certain time, to
perform a certain duty

Now-a-days a Dishonorable Discharge doesn't really mean too much. I know,
for a fact, that the store manager of our local Sears Robucks got a BCD
from the Navy for theft of the US. Mail

He will probably not be tried, just given a COG Discharge.

Charles

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True enough, theoretically they could order him to deliver a bomb to the Taliban personally {a la Slim Pickens! } but I would think that in practice if the Army has a few "objectors" they would try to put them to some useful purpose rather than making a big stink out of it. {scrubbing pots in Baghdad if need be}

That's why I think that a program that "earns" you more benefits for the longer you serve, rather than a program that "front-end" loads the benefits and then hope the guy will stick around.

That is one of my biggest objections to the handling of the Iraq war, instead of throwing billions to a dubious Iraqi government I personally would rather see them bump their vetran soldiers pay by $10,000 or $20,000!

In the current system it seems one of the main benefits for a new recruit is the free tuition, then leaving him trying to fill his contract and get out.

Just heard back from the my JAG buddy.

He said, "DD and a toss"

Exact quote.

Compared to all the crap that happened up in Canada, this is going to be anticlimactic. I think the Canadians either figured they were being played on this one or had a chat with the US Army who told him, "We're dumping him". At which case, they probably figured "Why are we bothering with this trash" and sent him back to the states.

As they say in the Military, it's a case of "pass the trash". Everybody wants to get rid of this guy. Our friends in the media are playing it for all it's worth. And I'd bet money they know he's going to be dumped too.

I hope he does not get positive media attention for this deal.

Because of Freebird's questions, and possibly other's on the forum who are
not from the U.S. I looked up the "Oath of Enlistment" in the US Armed
Forces. I was not aware that there is a different oath for the National Guard....


In the Armed Forces EXCEPT the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

In the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

Charles

Good Info ccheese.

I ran across a few "concientous objectors" during my Navy days....one tried to jump ship in Hong Kong (missed ships' movement), and after the boat had pulled out he went and tried to get a plane ticket home. Without a passport. The airlines sent him to the US embassy...and the idiot tried to get a passport re-issued. They asked how he got in-country in the first place. So he told them the story about how he didn't want to be a submariner anymore, and just left the ship. They handcuffed him. Last I saw, he was back in Pearl Harbor after having every steel-covered/lead-lined book thrown at him. CINCPAC didn't like deserters. He was doing a bunch of insanely menial labor around base, usually with a rather beefy PettyOfficer standing somewhere in the general vicinity. Heh. We used to try to find out where he was working that day, and made excuses (with the attitudes of our Chiefs, they didn't have to be very good, plausible excuses, either!) to try to "happen" by. Always made for a good laugh.

Another guy tried to open an escape hatch while out at sea....it took like two seconds for fellow subbers to subdue the moron (read: socket wrench to the head). He, too, was taken off the boat as soon as they pulled back into port. They gave him a psych eval, and last I heard of him, he was doing paperwork up at the Squadron offices, happy as a clam to not have to go to sea again. Dunno if they drummed him out or not.

Either way....EVERYBODY has options. If you find out the job you're doing isn't your cup of tea, there are honorable ways to get out of it. And you can retain your dignity, and the respect of those you're working with. Not everyone's cut out for every job. This dude, he needs to be made an example of. We're technically in a time of war (or armed conflict). Deserters can legally be shot. I'll buy the bullets, if someone else will buy the popcorn!

ccheese said:

Because of Freebird's questions, and possibly other's on the forum who are
not from the U.S. I looked up the "Oath of Enlistment" in the US Armed
Forces. I was not aware that there is a different oath for the National Guard....

Charles

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Thanks Charles!

RabidAlien said:

Either way....EVERYBODY has options. If you find out the job you're doing isn't your cup of tea, there are honorable ways to get out of it. And you can retain your dignity, and the respect of those you're working with. Not everyone's cut out for every job. This dude, he needs to be made an example of. We're technically in a time of war (or armed conflict). Deserters can legally be shot. I'll buy the bullets, if someone else will buy the popcorn!

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Good point.

What do you think about the current practice of giving the "benefit" up front {the tuition} and then having some folks {not too many} doing the absolute minimum service until they can get out? Are there many like that?

Wouldn't it be better to increase the "benefits" as the soldier/sailor serves longer?

Also interested to hear your opinions on the reports in the media about all of these poor dumb f**ks that signed up to get the college tuition and NEVER SUSPECTED THAT THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO SERVE OVERSEAS!

Can people really be that naive?

What did they think the Army was for? Filling sandbags rescuing cats from trees after a flood?

"Also interested to hear your opinions on the reports in the media about all of these poor dumb f**ks that signed up to get the college tuition and NEVER SUSPECTED THAT THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY HAVE TO SERVE OVERSEAS!

Can people really be that naive?

What did they think the Army was for? Filling sandbags rescuing cats from trees after a flood? [/QUOTE]"

I think many of these people think they can just magically get out of their commitment to service somehow. I think they take the tuition without ever really planning to uphold their end of the contract. I think they then squeal about how they did not know they had to serve as an attempt to dodge service.