Death Trap Aircraft

wmaxt · Aug 8, 2006

syscom3 said:
P38's were also hard to bail out of.

Actually they wern't, the tail if you look at profiles was further bach from the cockpit and even or a tad higher than most fighters. A set of scale drawings illistrates this at this site P-38 Profile

There is a vidio on Zeno's page of a pilot bailing out of a P-38 and he clears the tail by several feet (it looks to me to be about 5 feet).

Any airplane had conditions that were dangerous to try to get out, a spin for example, and did include the P-38 but in normal situations it wasn't any worse than, say, a Mustang.

wmaxt

pbfoot · Aug 8, 2006

the lancaster kicks *** said:
wasn't the "official" way to bail out of a P-38 to get out, crawl along the wing then down part of a boom then jump clear because they were so worried about people hitting the tail?

iwas given to understand you just slid off the wing and the airflow would suck you down

wmaxt · Aug 8, 2006

pbfoot said:
iwas given to understand you just slid off the wing and the airflow would suck you down

Thats right you were supposed to just slide off the wing. With nothing to hold onto and a red hot turbos going out to the boom is not realistic or even possible in most cases.

wmaxt

pbfoot · Aug 8, 2006

wmaxt said:
Thats right you were supposed to just slide off the wing. With nothing to hold onto and a red hot turbos going out to the boom is not realistic or even possible in most cases.

wmaxt

I seen that on zenos

V-1710 · Aug 8, 2006

Twitch said:
I once interviewed Walter Krupkinski and I found this comment on the P-39 amusing-

"I encountered many of your (American) aircraft. My experience with the Airacobra- they were easy to shoot down with the engine behind it. I had easily gotten behind one and fired. It was burning like hell. The aircraft was in heavy smoke and the pilot tried to bail out. This was my first experience with the Airacobra remember, and he opened a door! I had never seen that before; that the pilot could just open a door and step out of the aircraft cockpit!"

That very strong fuselage allowed for two big car door sized holes in the sides!

Twitch · Aug 9, 2006

99% of the time if the aircraft could still roll over they just went inverted and hit the quick release and let gravity do the job.

R988 · Aug 11, 2006

What about those early Typhoons with the 'car' door, they probably wouldn't be that easy to get out either, especially if it was going fast and you were trying to open the door against the wind resistence.

I imagine most bombers would have been something of a deathtrap, at least for the pilots who would have to hold it steady if possible for the crew to get out then try and get out via some escape hatch further back by himself with the plane going down out of control.

Hurricanes also got a bit of a reputation for burning pilots, though they usually got out alive. I guess Japanese aircraft probably burnt quite a few as well.

daishi12 · Aug 11, 2006

"Hurricanes also got a bit of a reputation for burning pilots, though they usually got out alive. I guess Japanese aircraft probably burnt quite a few as well."

I have read that when Douglas Badder was shot down it was a good thing he had tin legs as his feet got caught in the pedals. The straps holding his legs on broke during a spin and he was able to make a timely exit.

(I can't remeber whether he was in a Hurricane or Spit at the time though)

timshatz · Aug 12, 2006

daishi12 said:
"Hurricanes also got a bit of a reputation for burning pilots, though they usually got out alive. I guess Japanese aircraft probably burnt quite a few as well."

I have read that when Douglas Badder was shot down it was a good thing he had tin legs as his feet got caught in the pedals. The straps holding his legs on broke during a spin and he was able to make a timely exit.

(I can't remeber whether he was in a Hurricane or Spit at the time though)

Spit.

daishi12 · Aug 13, 2006

Cheers Tim

bomber · Aug 13, 2006

Yeh the death trap debate is a funny one...

I believe the stats say that if you had to bail out of a Halifax or Lancaster you'd choose a Halifax.. The stat also say that you're more likely to bail out of a Halifax than a Lancaster...

My vote for Deathtrap goes to the Avro Manchester, all the negative features of the Lanc and so underpowered it's a wonder it got in the air...

Simon

redcoat · Aug 16, 2006

R988 said:
Hurricanes also got a bit of a reputation for burning pilots, though they usually got out alive. I guess Japanese aircraft probably burnt quite a few as well.

This was during the Battle Of Britain, and it was due to the fact that when the British modified the fuel tanks on their fighters to be self-sealing they didn't modify the fuel tank between the engine and the pilot on the Hurricane, as it was difficult to get at, and it was considered protected by its position.
However it was soon realised that this was a mistake, and the RAF started modifying the fuel tanks during the battle itself, so by the end of the battle all the Hurricanes had been modified in this way, solving the problem.

ps Shame on you all,
Up to page 3 on death trap aircraft, and no-one has yet mentioned the Me 163 Komet.
It was such a death trap, it was even a danger to the ground crews.
Even re-fuelling it was dangerous.

JeffK · Aug 17, 2006

Boulton Paul Defiant.

Did a Gunner EVER bail out of a Defiant, I looked at a lot of cases and didnt see 1 succesful escape.

k9kiwi · Aug 17, 2006

The Defiant had two ways out, through the front of the turret, and via the hatch in the lower rear fuselage.

How about the Blenhiem from a Gunners perspective

Here you did your first flying in Blenheims, a most uncomfortable aircraft, not one which you could get out of easily if you were in trouble, and thankfully no-one on our course experienced it. You had to climb over a main spar to get to the turret, and could not wear a parachute harness, which was disconcerting to say the least; quite honestly the Blenheim was a death trap.

from BBC Peoples War

Glider · Aug 18, 2006

Wasn't it the Ki84 that didn't have an emergency release for the canopy

quayhog · Aug 19, 2006

I don't think the PV-1 Ventura was a death trap. It didn't provide the Brits with any operational advantage over any other aircraft they had to choose from so they gave it back to the US. The lend lease returned aircraft flew as the PV-3, mostly with training command and US inshore patrols. The USAAF had a similar quandry and abandoned its use. The USN found the Ventura's niche as a medium range patrol bomber. The crews who flew the aircraft loved it after they figured out its quirks. It could absorb significant battle damage and return its crew safely. The Ventura did have a very high wing loading and if you didn't treat it with respect it could kill you quickly.

My dad flew the PV (as a command pilot) several hundreds of hours during 1943-44 with VB-144 out of Tarawa. He had nothing but good things to say about the PV.

Smokey · Aug 19, 2006

The g4M Betty, or flying cigar. The poor guys in those had little chance

FLYBOYJ · Aug 19, 2006

quayhog said:
I don't think the PV-1 Ventura was a death trap. It didn't provide the Brits with any operational advantage over any other aircraft they had to choose from so they gave it back to the US. The lend lease returned aircraft flew as the PV-3, mostly with training command and US inshore patrols. The USAAF had a similar quandry and abandoned its use. The USN found the Ventura's niche as a medium range patrol bomber. The crews who flew the aircraft loved it after they figured out its quirks. It could absorb significant battle damage and return its crew safely. The Ventura did have a very high wing loading and if you didn't treat it with respect it could kill you quickly.

My dad flew the PV (as a command pilot) several hundreds of hours during 1943-44 with VB-144 out of Tarawa. He had nothing but good things to say about the PV.

Very cool! I'm a former Lockheed employee (Burbank) and heard a lot of the old timers talk well about the Ventura. Some even shot down Zeros! I guess the Ventura also had some structural wing problems that were corrected when the PV-2 Harpoon was built...

The Marines also used them as a night fighter and I know they had a few kills as well.

quayhog · Aug 19, 2006

VPNAVY - VP-144 Crew Summary Page - VP Patrol Squadron
VPNAVY - VP-144 History Summary Page - VP Patrol Squadron

Links are for a picture of my dad and crew (with PV-1) and also some squadron history that was released by the Navy Department in 1944. I found all this stuff in my dad's personal records. With his permission I provided the documents to the VPNavy web site for public view.

There is a restored ex USN Ventura in a museum in New Zealand. There is also an RCAF one being recovered somewhere from a northern Canadian crash site.

Jonathan Horne

FLYBOYJ · Aug 19, 2006

Very very cool!!! I'm on that site! I was in VP-65.

Death Trap Aircraft

Staff Sergeant

1st Lieutenant

Staff Sergeant

1st Lieutenant

Airman 1st Class

Staff Sergeant

Senior Airman

Airman

Chief Master Sergeant

Airman

Banned

Senior Airman

Airman

Staff Sergeant

Captain

Airman

Senior Airman

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

Airman

"THE GREAT GAZOO"

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