Did LT Stanley W. “Swede” Vejtasa Actually Shoot Down Three Zeros While in an SBD Dauntless?

[contrails16]

Hi all, I have recently discovered that LT Stanley W. "Swede" Vejtasa, is claimed to have shot down three zeros while in an SBD dive bomber at the Battle of the Coral Sea. It's just that the story sounds very unlikely to me, or perhaps there is something being left out that we don't know, such as maybe friendly pilots damaging the zeros and he being the guy who just happened to finish them off. I would like to hear what the community thinks of this. Thank you

 

[Dana Bell]

The pre-war US Navy underestimated the number of fighters necessary to protect the fleet and escort a strike force. Some of the SBD complement was employed as fleet defense, and Vejtasa was pretty good at it. Details can be found in The First Team.

Cheers,


Dana

 

[Snautzer01]

Are there japanese loss record?

 

[Juha3]

Are there japanese loss record?

There are. IIRC Lundstrom in his The First Team concludes that "Swede" overclaimed, how much cannot remember and I don't have now time to check. But generally claims are just claims, almost everybody overclaimed, some more some less but no need to get fixated to claims, try to find real results.

 

[SaparotRob]

There were lots of over claiming by both sides. However, the fact Swede Vejtasa actually survived flying CAP in a Dauntless against Zeros is pretty impressive. Somewhere on the 'net mentioned that the Zero would put out smoke when throttling up. This led some US pilots to think they scored hits.

 

[GrauGeist]

Examine the dogfight details of that engagement and you'll find that "Swede" used the SBD's qualities to his advantage.

The SBD, unlike a traditional fighter, had a frame designed to withstand a higher "G" load and SBD pilots were trained to deal with those high G-loads, so "Swede" used that to his advantage by pulling tight turns to prevent the Zeros from getting on his tail and bringing his foreward .50s to bear on the attackers.

 

[swampyankee]

The idea that the SBD was some lumbering ox while unladen is likely nonsense: unladen, it would have a low wing loading and fairly high hp:wgt ratio.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Yorktown Air Group claimed that every aircraft they shot down was a Zero:

U.S.S. Yorktown--Action Report of the Battle of the Coral Sea

Shokaku and Zuikaku only had 43 Zeros between them, including the 5 they were transporting.


CORRECTION: 46 including the 8 they were transporting. There were no pilots for these.

 

[GrauGeist]

Yorktown Air Group claimed that every aircraft they shot down was a Zero:
View attachment 588516
U.S.S. Yorktown--Action Report of the Battle of the Coral Sea

Shokaku and Zuikaku only had 43 Zeros between them, including the 5 they were transporting.

I'm seeing claims of enemy fighters (VF), torpedo bombers (VT), dive bombers (VB) and a patrol plane (VP) listed along with a caveat of possible duplicate claims.

 

[CORSNING]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwibz_WwpdfqAhVJXM0KHfaeDF8QFjABegQIBxAB&url=https://www.wearethemighty.com/articles/the-navys-baddest-pilot-in-world-war-ii-isnt-who-you-think&usg=AOvVaw3wGHH0LBEFUqVSVnhR9hBX

The Douglas A-24 was the US Army Dauntless. It was roughly 200 lb. lighter than its Navy
equivalent. In the following memorandum turn to page 3 and read under B. Summary of Test
Results, part 3. (Pursuit vs. Pursuit), section g. Hurricane vs. A-24.
"The Hurricane was the best airplane for attack against
the A-24 because of its maneuverability, also its low speed
compared to the other pursuit airplanes was an advantage,
since the A-24 when dive-bombing has a slow diving speed.
Although the Hurricane was the best pursuit airplane for
attacking the A-24, it was difficult to get good shots because
of the sharp turning of the A-24, its slow diving speed and
the higher speed of the Hurricane. In turning, the Hurricane
has a slight advantage over the A-24."
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/P-40/PHQ-M-19-1307-A.pdf

 

[CORSNING]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjW9NSkqtfqAhXJWM0KHT_0DwoQwqsBMAV6BAgLEAU&url=https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3qhcjy&usg=AOvVaw3tVl4Jz5bKjQhoVfmB22eF

Tried to post the Long Odds episode of Vejtasa's interview....Need help please.

 

[GrauGeist]

Tried to post the Long Odds episode of Vejtasa's interview....Need help please.

 

[SaparotRob]

My copy of "The First Team" just arrived!!! No one else I know would care.

 

[SaparotRob]

Just watched "Dog fights-long odds" again. The maneuver the Zeros were doing, scissor or rolling scissors, was it similar to the Thach weave?

 

[Colin L]

I have also read that Vejtasa also deliberately cross controlled his Dauntless when a Zero was attacking him. This made his aircraft slip (skid slightly sideways) and the apparent direction of flight was different from the actual direction. Anyone trying to lead him would be aiming where they thought he would be, not where he was going! Everyone missed wide.
Clever guy!

 

[elbmc1969]

Just watched "Dog fights-long odds" again. The maneuver the Zeros were doing, scissor or rolling scissors, was it similar to the Thach weave?

Scissors (aeronautics) - Wikipedia
It's like the Thach weave if your wingman is the enemy, instead.

 

[swampyankee]

I have also read that Vejtasa also deliberately cross controlled his Dauntless when a Zero was attacking him. This made his aircraft slip (skid slightly sideways) and the apparent direction of flight was different from the actual direction. Anyone trying to lead him would be aiming where they thought he would be, not where he was going! Everyone missed wide.
Clever guy!

An aircraft can also slow down fast in a slip. This may be part of the reason, although giving up that energy may not have been wise.

 

[Colin L]

You can scrub off a lot of speed with a slip, or descend like a piano if you want, but I think the idea here was to give an erroneous direction of flight.

 

[Schweik]

Are the actual Japanese lossws in first team for that day

 

[elbmc1969]

Are the actual Japanese lossws in first team for that day

Yes, but I don't have to book to be able to cite them.