Die Hard 2 - Plane crash landing scene

wuzak

Captain
7,900
2,542
Jun 5, 2011
Hobart Tasmania
In Die Hard 2 the bad guys take over the airport's systems and make demands. The tower staff are given enough time to divert incoming flights, whee possible, and to set the other aircraft into a holding pattern.

To punish the airport for not complying with the demands, they reset the ground level for the ILS lower and then guide an aircraft into land, but they crash into the ground.

Can the ILS be reset to indicate a lower level for the runways?

Would that create an anomaly between the ILS and the aircraft's own instruments?

Could an airliner land in bad weather even when the airport systems are inoperative?
 

Simon Thomas

Airman 1st Class
191
196
Jan 16, 2017
Sarnia, ON
Can the ILS be reset to indicate a lower level for the runways?
The angle could be changed, but not the level. (I'm not IFR - so I could be out to lunch on this.) Dropping the angle below horizontal would achieve the necessary poor outcome to suit Hollywood.

Would that create an anomaly between the ILS and the aircraft's own instruments?
If they were using GPS it would indicate a different slope. If they had the procedure chart out they might detect the altitude differences.

Could an airliner land in bad weather even when the airport systems are inoperative?
Depends on the cloud height. A good pilot with the right GPS equipment could land with cloud on the ground. Remember the two 737s landing at Mildura a few years back due to crap weather in Adelaide? I can't recall if Mildura had an ILS. Both planes landed below cloud minimum and way below fuel minimum. CASA was pissed that the ATSB couldn't fault the pilots. In my view the pilots did a spectacular job. The outcome could have been the far worse.
 

FLYBOYJ

"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Staff
Mod
28,097
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Apr 9, 2005
Colorado, USA
In Die Hard 2 the bad guys take over the airport's systems and make demands. The tower staff are given enough time to divert incoming flights, whee possible, and to set the other aircraft into a holding pattern.

To punish the airport for not complying with the demands, they reset the ground level for the ILS lower and then guide an aircraft into land, but they crash into the ground.

Can the ILS be reset to indicate a lower level for the runways?

Would that create an anomaly between the ILS and the aircraft's own instruments?

Could an airliner land in bad weather even when the airport systems are inoperative?
Hollywood BS....

I'm almost certain you can't change any nav settings at the airport without doing some major rework to the ground transmitters

When you fly an ILS there is a minimum descent altitude (MDA) where you must remain until you have a visual of the runway. You'll follow your altimeter which is independent of the ILS system. Unless you're in deep IFR you usually "break out" way before getting to the MDA. If you don't get a visual you go "missed." (MAP)

If the glide slope portion of the ILS system is out you can do a VOR approach and time your descent.

mda2-small.jpg


Go to 15:00 of this clip

 
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FLYBOYJ

"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Staff
Mod
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Apr 9, 2005
Colorado, USA
Would that create an anomaly between the ILS and the aircraft's own instruments?
You can have VHF interference that may mess with the ILS, one of the reasons why for years the airlines didn't want electronics on during landing
Could an airliner land in bad weather even when the airport systems are inoperative?
No - you divert to another airport and in the flight plan you always plan for that event.
 

wuzak

Captain
7,900
2,542
Jun 5, 2011
Hobart Tasmania
The approaching aircraft would have triggered the MSAW system to the ATC if it (the aircraft) was detected below safe altitude.

MSAW - minimum safe altitude warning?

In this situation the ATC was under the control of the bad guys, so that warning may have been triggered, but ignored?
 

Graeme

1st Sergeant
4,616
2,789
May 31, 2007
Speaking of Hollywood movies, and apologies in advance Wuzak for the thread drift.
I recently re-watched Executive Decision - does anyone know if the F-14s that were seen flying with the 747 were - 'real'?

BS2.jpg
 

PAT303

Staff Sergeant
1,259
776
Dec 31, 2018
And what grenades have delay long enough for him to get in, strap in and activate the ejection seat.
I watched a great video that had a trauma team assess Hollywood movie scene injuries, the ones were guys fall off buildings, get shot, crash cars, get hit by bits of pipe etc, it was interesting to watch because almost to a man none would have survived in reality, but who cares, it's entertainment.
 

Ovod

Airman 1st Class
132
101
Oct 22, 2020
Also ask yourself, what transport plane has ejection seats? Yes I know it was a C-123 with jet engines instead of the radials.

You thought Die Hard II was bad? More recently we have Jurassic World: Dominion to our screens. This time we it's a C-119 that gets 'misrepresented' by film makers - an ejection jump seat no less (fast forward to 7:50) ...

Warning: danger of some harsh language for the more sensitive ears
 

cammerjeff

Senior Airman
373
711
Dec 26, 2006
There are so many things wrong with The movie I used to consider it the funniest movie ever made. Just off the top of my head the things that made me laugh

1- the seemingly steam powered baggage handling system near the beginning
2- all the A/C just put into a holding pattern and not diverting to one of the 30 or so other available airports in the area
3- the crash you mention to start this thread - even if they could change the altitude of the ILS system with a few clicks on a keyboard, in the A/C that crashes the Ground Proximity warning system would be calling out "whoop whoop, pull up, to low terrain" repeatedly in the cockpit, and Pilots are trained to react immediately to the Ground Prox. warnings
4 - the radio altimeter would show the actual height above ground to the crew
5- The windshield of the C-123 shattering when the bullets hit it, The windshield is about the only thing in the cockpit that might stop a riffle caliber Bullet
6- ducking away from the windshield when the bullets start flying (see item #5) and being protected by the sheet aluminum the fuselage is made from.
7- the manual fuel dump valve he pulls on the engine pylon of the 747? When did they install those?
8 - when the tower communicates on the marker beacon frequency? Even if possible I have no idea why or how the Flight engineer turning on a switch that's location usually controls one of the electric hydraulic pumps would accomplish that.
9- all the warning lights on in the cockpit in flight, evidently they have never heard of the term "dark cockpit" so a warning light can actually draw your attention to a problem when it comes on.
10- the previously mentioned ejector seat in a transport plane.

I am sure I could come up with many more if I watched it again, one of the reasons my wife doesn't like watching aviation movies with me! LOL
 

FLYBOYJ

"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Staff
Mod
28,097
8,668
Apr 9, 2005
Colorado, USA
Can the ILS be reset to indicate a lower level for the runways?
The angle could be changed, but not the level. (I'm not IFR - so I could be out to lunch on this.) Dropping the angle below horizontal would achieve the necessary poor outcome to suit Hollywood.

Would that create an anomaly between the ILS and the aircraft's own instruments?
If they were using GPS it would indicate a different slope. If they had the procedure chart out they might detect the altitude differences.

Could an airliner land in bad weather even when the airport systems are inoperative?
Depends on the cloud height. A good pilot with the right GPS equipment could land with cloud on the ground. Remember the two a few years back due to crap weather in Adelaide? I can't recall if Mildura had an ILS. Both planes landed below cloud minimum and way below fuel minimum. CASA was pissed that the ATSB couldn't fault the pilots. In my view the pilots did a spectacular job. The outcome could have been the far worse.
Simon, you're all over the place on this one, see my post and look into instrument procedures during landing. You can't land with just GPS equipment, there's a lot more involved..

As far as the Adelaide incident - I looked this up and this is one of the rare situations where a commercial airliner had to land below mininum.

 

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