Early Ship-board Helicopters

Conslaw · Sep 16, 2019

Does anyone have any good information about the early use of helicopters on naval ships either as an adjunct or replacement for seaplanes? Was this exclusively a post-war phenomenon, or were there some experiments during WWII?

swampyankee · Sep 16, 2019

Conslaw said:
Does anyone have any good information about the early use of helicopters on naval ships either as an adjunct or replacement for seaplanes? Was this exclusively a post-war phenomenon, or were there some experiments during WWII?

The USN and USCG used them operationally. See Sikorsky Archives | Historical Essays

Conslaw · Sep 16, 2019

I saw in the Sikorsky Archives that the Coast Guard used helicopters operationally during the war, and the U.S. Army did in CBI theater, but I don't see anything about US Navy use especially from warships. This page says the first helicopter naval rescue was in February 1947.
Sikorsky Archives | Naval Rescue The first helicopter carrier was the USCGC Cobb in 1943. This was a coastal steamboat dating back from 1906 converted for helicopter operational training. This ship was so weary that it rarely was able to leave port, apparently. USCGC Cobb (WPG-181) - Wikipedia

Conslaw · Sep 17, 2019

Apparently all US Navy ships lost their seaplanes and catapults in the 1947-1949 period. The seaplanes were replaced with HO3S-1 Dragonfly helicopters. Twilight of catapult aviation after WWII: pt.1 . Compared with other changes in the peacetime Navy, the switch from seaplanes to helicopters was remarkably swift.

GrauGeist · Sep 17, 2019

While not a true helicopter, the Japanese Army operated the Ka-1 and Ka-2, a gyrocopter, both from land-based airfields and their aircraft carriers in the ASW role.

Capt. Vick · Sep 17, 2019

Maybe this book:

I have it at home and can check, it's just that I have to remember! :lol:

cherry blossom · Sep 17, 2019

The earliest experiments were by the Germans, who tested a Flettner Fl-282 prototype on the cruiser Koln in 1941. There is a video posted by Nick Karatzides which shows a Fl-282 V6 helicopter registered as GF-YF during operational tests aboard the Kriegsmarine's minelayer "Drach" ("Schiff 50", ex-Yugoslavian "Zmaj") while operating in Aegean Sea, north of Crete, Greece and this was followed by limited operational use (mostly limited by the failure of mass production due to Allied bombing).

There are other video such as one on this site Flettner Fl 282 by johnbr and one which shows off the manoeuvrability at

Conslaw · Sep 17, 2019

The US Coast Guard, starting in 1942, seemed to be waving a giant flag trying to get the attention of the Navy like "Hey guys- these helicopters are great - we could really make use of these, let's make a lot more of them."

Dinger · Sep 19, 2019

The British experience: In September 1935 the Royal Navy trialled the use of Cierva(Avro built) C30A Rota mk I autogyros from the carrier HMS Furious. This led to the issuing the following year of specification 43/36 "A Gyroplane for the FAA". One of the roles of the gyroplane was to be "night shadowing" - keeping contact with an enemy vessel or fleet at night. The Cierva C40 designed for this role had side-by-side seating. A small batch was produced and it was tested by the Navy the following year but rejected (The C40s were passed onto the RAF for Army co-op duties, at least one served in France in 1940). But the Navy retained their interest in rotorcraft and in 1938 specification S22/38 was issued calling for an autogyro or helicopter that could be used for spotting (directing navy gunfire) or fleet-shadowing and which could also be used for army co-op duties. Cierva tendered their C-39 autogyro design and Weir Brothers their W-7 two-rotor helicopter, but the tender was won by the Austrian national Raoul Hafner with his AR IV and AR V designs (the ARV was a larger three-seat version of the AR IV). - These were traditional autogyro designs albeit using Hafner's unique rotor-hub design which allowed far greater control. No sooner had he got the contract for the autogyros than he interested the Royal Navy in his parallel helicopter developments, the PD6 and PD7 (the PD7 was a larger version of the PD6 and it mounted a large calibre gun). Hafner's helicopter designs did not incorporate a tail-rotor, they used downdraught over the large thin aerofoil profile fuselage to counter the torque of the engine. All four of his designs, both autogyro and helicopter, were ordered in prototype form, with even serial numbers being allocated and recognition silhouettes for the types being issued to the Observer Corps. However, in May 1940 Raoul Hafner was interned as an "enemy alien" which put a stop to all the projects. He did not stay interned for long, and he got full British citizenship not long after his release. For whatever reason, the navy projects were not restarted ( it might be that the Royal Navy realised that the humble Fairey Swordfish was capable of the night-shadowing role if fitted with the long-range tank in place of one of the three-man crew and that the upcoming availability of ASV radar would extend the Swordfish's capability even more). Hafner went on to develop the Rotachute and Rotabuggy for British airborne forces - See this link. http://www.dingeraviation.net/rota/hafnerrotas.html The Royal Navy seems to have lost all interest in rotorcraft until the advent of the Sikorsky Hoverfly at the end of the war opened their eyes to new possibilities.

GreenKnight121 · Sep 19, 2019

Conslaw said:
I saw in the Sikorsky Archives that the Coast Guard used helicopters operationally during the war, and the U.S. Army did in CBI theater, but I don't see anything about US Navy use especially from warships. This page says the first helicopter naval rescue was in February 1947.
Sikorsky Archives | Naval Rescue

Actually, that was merely the first rescue of 4 that day.
The actual acknowledged first military helicopter air-sea rescue was carried out in 1946 when a Sikorsky S-51 being demonstrated to the U.S. Navy was used in an emergency to pull a downed Navy pilot from the ocean.
ref: McGowan, Stanley S. Helicopters: an illustrated history of their impact. ABC-CLIO, 2005. ISBN 1-85109-468-7 p. 65.

Naval Helicopter History Timeline - Naval Helicopter Association Historical Society:
The First Atlantic Convoy that Used the New Antisubmarine Helicopter Patrol Capability

January 6, 1944. – The first Atlantic convoy that used the new antisubmarine helicopter patrol capability sailed from New York to Liverpool, UK, with two HNS-1 helicopters and three pilots, U.S. Navy LCDRs James Klopp and John Miller and USCG LTJG StewartGraham embarked. The first sortie at sea was flown from Daghestan by LTJG Graham on 16 January, a 30 minutes flight. With the support of CAPT Kossler and ADM Waesche, CDR Erickson had been able to sell the Navy on the concept of using the helicopter in the convoy antisubmarine patrol role.

Dinger · Mar 30, 2020

This thread prompted me to do a bit more research and some paintings - Finally got around to finishing them. See Link. Hafner autogyro and helicopter projects

nuuumannn · Apr 8, 2020

Hafner Rotabuggy reproduction anbd Rotachute on display at the Museum of Army Flying, Middle Wallop.

0207 Museum of Army Flying Rotor Jeep

0207 Museum of Army Flying Rotachute

Flettner Fl 282 V-10 at the Midland Air Museum, Coventry. Certainly the most promising of European early wartime rotorcraft developments.

1107 Midland Air Museum Kolibri

And let's not forget the Bachstelze towed behind U-boats for reconnaissance duties. Exact service dates and usage are not known, although what is known was that they were unpopular as, if a U-boat had to crash dive, the fate of the poor fella up in his rotor kite was uncertain. This one is hung at the Deutsches Technik Museum, Berlin.

Fa 330

Snautzer01 · Apr 8, 2020

eBay non type specific

GrauGeist · Apr 8, 2020

nuuumannn said:
And let's not forget the Bachstelze towed behind U-boats for reconnaissance duties. Exact service dates and usage are not known, although what is known was that they were unpopular as, if a U-boat had to crash dive, the fate of the poor fella up in his rotor kite was uncertain.

Reminds me of the poor bastards that were assigned to the "Air Car" aboard Zeppelins during the Great War, where they were lowered several hundred feet below the airship to scout beneath the cloud cover.