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Some will beat their chests and wring the hands over the morals of the bombings. Some will debate the effect and efficiency of the effort. This they will do from their nice safe houses and comfy armchairs and in complete freedom. They are perfectly entitled to do that,it's what our forbears were fighting for.
Steve
The military or the industries that support and supply them have never been separated well from civilian areas, particularly in Europe.
That is interesting. Have you been to Europe?
Military or the industries are seldom found in city centres you know.. quite typically they are concentrated on the edge of town, in well identifiable areas. This has a reason of it's own, you see, most European cities are very old. Originally none of them had industries, but a small medieval core or center. Industrial areas were built up at the edge of this core as there was plenty of space at the beginning of the century.
Concentrating firepower on the city center will just makes sure these areas are left untouched.
This would seem to be the unintended use of precision in "precision bombing".
IMHO 'fighting for freedom' is something invented well after the war, when the morality of these bombings were started to be questioned. Back in the war, Churchill was talking about 'maintaining the British Empire for a thousand years' and with the freedom and privileges the British (and esp. the English) were enjoying under that at the expense of others.
Bomber Command never gave a thing about the freedom of other people than it's own. It's a valid mindset IMHO, but portraying it as a some generous campaign for the freedom of the World/Europe is IMHO flawed.
The ETO for US doctrine was a different story. Dresden was the exception.
"Any German city which may be bombed without disrupting the Fighter Support", "Any industrial city positively identified in Germany", "Any city positively identified as being in Germany which can be attacked without disrupting fighter support"
No towns or cities in Germany will be attacked
as secondary or last resort targets, targets of
opportunity, or otherwise, unless such towns contain
or have immediately adjacent to them, one (1)
or more military objectives. Military objectives
include railway lines; junctions; marshalling yards;
railway or road bridges, or other communications
networks; any industrial plant; and such obvious
military objectives as oil storage tanks, military
camps and barracks, troop concentrations, motor
transport or AFV parks, ordnance or supply
depots, ammunition depots; airfields; etc.
It has been determined that towns and cities
large enough to produce an identifiable return on
the H2X scope generally contain a large proportion
of the military objectives listed above. These centers,
therefore, may be attacked as secondary or
last resort targets through the overcast bombing
technique.
I'm sorry - the US doctrine of precision bombing in Europe might have served to soothe consciences back home but it didn't make much difference to German civilians. I believe the USAAF routinely bombed through cloud using radar in the last two years of the war – how could that be anything but bombing of a civilian centre?
Military or the industries are seldom found in city centres you know.. quite typically they are concentrated on the edge of town, in well identifiable areas. This has a reason of it's own, you see, most European cities are very old. Originally none of them had industries, but a small medieval core or center. Industrial areas were built up at the edge of this core as there was plenty of space at the beginning of the century.
I sort of agree with you here. It was the difference between intent and what was actually possible with the technology of the day.
It was the British who discovered that to hit anything useful they would have to employ a lot of bombers,dropping a lot of bombs,and hit a lot of other stuff too. We were prepared to do that,quite rightly in my opinion.
Some will beat their chests and wring the hands over the morals of the bombings. Some will debate the effect and efficiency of the effort. This they will do from their nice safe houses and comfy armchairs and in complete freedom. They are perfectly entitled to do that,it's what our forbears were fighting for.
They should however never lose sight of the fact that this freedom was partly paid for by the 55,000 men who paid the ultimate price carrying out the RAF's bombing campaign and the tens of thousands of their American allies who made the same sacrifice thousands of miles from home in the cold,cloudy and unfamiliar skies of Europe.
It is them that I choose to remember.
Steve
But London was a military target. If they got Big Ben the British wouldn't know what time it was.Much is made of the area bombing of Germany but, I had yet to see German aircrew being held accountable for the death and destruction they rained on Britain during the Blitz....
But London was a military target.
These heavy bombers were like a flock of geese flying in formation. Would improving their firepower have made an appreciable difference versus these fighters? I doubt it. That wasn't their problem. You send any non-fighter aircraft into a zone like that on a mission and they have to be fighter-escorted. That was their problem.hmm, and this all had a lot to do with " Effectiveness of Heavy Bomber defensive fires vs LW Fighters"....