Effectiveness of rear-seat gunners

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Almost certainly, the Me410 (or Me110) will have significantly worse maneuverability than an attacking single-engined fighter, the pilot of which would be able to chose the attack vector. The gunner, in a single-engined aircraft, will be close to the center of mass and the aim point, so in addition to dealing with a heavy machine gun, probably without power assistance, an aiming system that's basically by-guess-and-by-God, he's going to believe he, personally, is the target. This is unlikely to improve his state of mind.
 
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I think Patton said, to his soldiers, something to the effect of "your job isn't to die for your country; it's to make the other guy die for his."
I'd have hated serving under him, but I gotta say: It's hard not to love his quotes...
In a large conflict, casualties can be crippling to a military, but in a small one they can be used by the most cynical of politicians to keep the conflict going.
Yeah, I remember hearing something about Nixon (via Kissinger) deliberately crippling Johnson's attempts to bring the war to a peaceful conclusion in order to get elected.
I think that's the case with most all wars: And modern day, ironically it's easier for politicians to adopt the mind-set because they stand to lose nothing to lose of their own (their kids don't fight, and even if they served in uniform, they'd probably be far from the front lines).

Sure numerous young guys who aren't so lucky (many of them without enough money to go to college) get sent off to get their limbs blown off, and when they come back, they get a nice prosthetic arm, but rather than be allowed to go back home and chill out; they get sent off (seemingly for no other reason than) to get something else shot off/blown off.
I've become more and more of the opinion that national governments need wars to justify their existence, so they'll fabricate them as needed.
Depends on the nation: Iceland has managed to be pretty mellow, but some nations can't seem to keep their nose out of other's business, they usually have considerable proportions of their industry built for war, heavily funded by powerful financiers who have long since learned the Golden Rule (That's right: "Them that's got's the gold makes the rules") and often finance both sides, and profit handsomely -- they almost never manage to get tried for anything like treason or trading with the enemy (something that mere mortals like you or me would be strung up for), because they operate through intermediaries, are smart enough not to blab about it, often have ties to the various intelligence services, as well as strings of corrupt politicians (held in line by indebtedness and compromising secrets), and can create tragedy on demand (using all the above) if they get even remotely close to being cornered.

WWII was to end all wars and bring a lasting peace. It didn't happen.
Technically that was believed to be true of both WWI and WWII...
I am of the opinion that lasting peace can not be achieved through conflict. Rather, it must be the will and desire of leaders of our great Countries supported by the people they represent. Will it ever happen? I sure hope so!
You're basically right, though I'm not sure if it's possible to have peace in terms of no conflict (conflict seems invariable to some extent), but I think it's possible to reduce the frequency, the scope, and intensity of them. I think much of the conflicts occurring around the globe could be settled in much more level-headed ways if powerful people with nothing to lose weren't funding both sides and profiting hand over fist.
 


I do apologize for misunderstanding your comments; my personal opinion is that WWI was largely the result of too many people thinking that war would be a cleansing, improving experience.

On the other hand, I think that Serbia lit the fuze, Austria-Hungary threw on the gasoline; Russia and Germany could have stopped it. No one in authority seemed to want to.
 

Well, the Bf 110 wasnt a fighter but a Zerstorer, meaning a multirole aircraft, lightbomber/heavy fighter, it was a THREE-seater (which is why eventually would be able to be adapted as a night fighter), the third man was a bombardier (supposed to have an internal bomb bay, but Messerschmitt cheated and omitted it, thus handily beating the competitors that adhered to the specification).

Fatso liked it and decided it was a pure fighter... HIS fighter...

So, any time you want to compare the 110 to something, well, you would have to mash together a Blenheim and a Fulmar to make somethin similar, or a P-38 and an Avenger...

On the other hand, I think that Serbia lit the fuze, Austria-Hungary threw on the gasoline; Russia and Germany could have stopped it. No one in authority seemed to want to.

Serbia wanted AH gone, AH wanted Serbia gone, Saratov wanted Constantinople and to regain Russia's prestige, destroyed by the "yellow midgets" in 1905 (just think what it meant for the Russians, already widely mocked in Europe for being a backward people and "half Asian" to be beaten by Japan...), Bethmann-Hollweg wanted to score a diplomatic victory, Moltke saw Germany's military position deteriorate year by year and believed "better now than later"...

The French wanted war, Grey was an appeaser and an idiot...

Great mix...

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I do apologize for misunderstanding your comments; my personal opinion is that WWI was largely the result of too many people thinking that war would be a cleansing, improving experience.
Cleansing and improving?
 
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Stuka ace Rudel certainly gave his skilled rear-gunners due credit for their share in his combat success,
& didn't a B-52 tail-gunner bag a MiG 21 while hammering targets around Hanoi?
 
Yeah, you know, kinda cathartic. Nothing improves the self esteem like slaughtering your annoying neighbors.

Alas, true. The Europeans had been practicing in Africa and wanted to bring their mission to civilize the natives to their misbegotten neighbors.
 
Alas, true. The Europeans had been practicing in Africa and wanted to bring their mission to civilize the natives to their misbegotten neighbors.


& the awful consequences of a real 'total-war' military-industrial conflict,
viz the US/CS Civil War - was still within living memory,
unlike those mere 'professional army' skimishes undertaken in Europe, since Napoleon.
 
Stuka ace Rudel certainly gave his skilled rear-gunners due credit for their share in his combat success,
& didn't a B-52 tail-gunner bag a MiG 21 while hammering targets around Hanoi?
Stuka ace Rudel certainly gave his skilled rear-gunners due credit for their share in his combat success,
& didn't a B-52 tail-gunner bag a MiG 21 while hammering targets around Hanoi?
I recently read "Don't Call Me A Hero" by a Midway Dauntless pilot, he certainly gave a lot of credit to his rear seat gunner. He was saved from getting shot down more than once by his gunner.
 
I recently read "Don't Call Me A Hero" by a Midway Dauntless pilot, he certainly gave a lot of credit to his rear seat gunner. He was saved from getting shot down more than once by his gunner.


And here we have the real question of effectiveness.

The real measure of effectiveness is how many planes did the rear gunners keep from being shot down, not how many enemy fighters they shot down.
But the first is very hard to measure, the 2nd is not.
 
This is why clever businesses spend money on good statisticians and dim ones get statisticians who will tell you that drunk drivers kill half as many as sober ones do so you can halve the road death rate by requiring drivers to drink alcohol......
 

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