kool kitty89
Senior Master Sergeant
And something else interesting is that this P-38 manual LOCKHEED P-38 LIGHTNING does suggest the use of the elavator trim tab if necessary to aid in dive pull-out.
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Then what were you talking about here?
It does say that but it also says to reduce speed prior to using the elevator trim tab.And something else interesting is that this P-38 manual LOCKHEED P-38 LIGHTNING does suggest the use of the elavator trim tab if necessary to aid in dive pull-out.
By November 1941, many of the initial assembly line challenges had been met and there was some breathing room for the engineering team to tackle the problem of frozen controls in a dive. Lockheed had a few ideas for tests that would help them find an answer. The first solution tried was the fitting of spring-loaded servo tabs on the elevator trailing edge; tabs that were designed to aid the pilot when control yoke forces rose over 30 pounds, as would be expected in a high-speed dive. At that point, the tabs would begin to multiply the effort of the pilot's actions. The expert test pilot, 43-year-old[14] Ralph Virden, was given a specific high-altitude test sequence to follow and was told to restrict his speed and fast maneuvering in denser air at low altitudes since the new mechanism could exert tremendous leverage under those conditions. A note was taped to the instrument panel of the prototype underscoring this instruction. On 4 November 1941, Virden climbed into YP-38 #1 and completed the test sequence successfully, but 15 minutes later was seen in a steep dive followed by a high-G pullout. The tail unit of the aircraft failed at about 3,000 ft (910 m) during the high-speed dive recovery; Virden was killed in the subsequent crash. The Lockheed design office was justifiably upset, but their design engineers could only conclude that servo tabs were not the solution for loss of control in a dive. Lockheed still had to find the problem; the Army Air Corps was sure it was flutter, ordering Lockheed to look more closely at the tail.
I now don't think the early P-80s had any type of wing mounted dive brakes, just the belly mounted speed brake and wing flaps.
Got it.
So when the F-80A manual refers to "dive flaps" is it just referring to the belly airbrake?
7. DIVE FLAP CONTROLS.
The dive flaps are controlled by a switch (9, figures 6 and 6A) which operates an electrically actuated hydraulic valve. It is not possible to stop the flaps in any intermediate position; they must be either "full up" or "full down."
I believe so, but in the case of the P-38 you really didn't need them on landing. A recip aircraft accelerates and slows down pretty rapidly. A jet (especially an early jet) could take a lot to "spool up" and a lot to slow down, that's why speed brakes are so critical. The speed brakes on the P-38 were there mainly to get the pilot out of trouble if he found himself hurling towards the ground.From what I've read the P-38's operate in a similer manner.
In the flights I took in the T-33 we never deployed the speedbrakes at high speed. When they were deployed it was done so to slow us down during pattern entry to a landing, I think around 250 knots. When deployed the aircraft shook with a washboard effect and airspeed diminished rapidly. One pilot I flew with would pop them open on final to slow down a bit, especially if a long final was flown. In essence I think they were deployed more to slow the aircraft down during landing than anything else.Do the Shooting Star's dive flaps/airbrakes caue it to pitch up at all when deployed? (without elevator imput to counter such movement)
buzzard you might want to look at the argument on this topic here: http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/polls/p-38-lightning-vs-p-51-mustang-better-fighter-3867-19.html