Engine control Kommandogerät for BMW 801s in aircraft other than Fw 190?

[chris ballance]

Did all German aircraft with BMW 801 engines have a Kommandogerät for each engine similar to the one in the Fw 190?

 

[Capt. Vick]

Good question! I have no idea, but I suspect not.

 

[Crimea_River]

Well, judging by the Fw200 cockpit I would say no.

Fw-200-Condor_Cockpit

ww2aircraft.net

 

[Snautzer01]

BMW 801 Kommandogerat

If a computer is a device that uses inputs to generate outputs Could the Kommandogerat used on the FW-190 be considered as a primitive form of electro-hydraulic-mechanical computer? Addition to this question; Were there any other aircraft previous to this that had a comparable system?

ww2aircraft.net

 

[chris ballance]

BMW 801 Kommandogerat

If a computer is a device that uses inputs to generate outputs Could the Kommandogerat used on the FW-190 be considered as a primitive form of electro-hydraulic-mechanical computer? Addition to this question; Were there any other aircraft previous to this that had a comparable system?

ww2aircraft.net

Yes, this thread lead me to ask this question. I was looking at this photo of the surviving Ju 388 cockpit a noticed the two throttles. {I had assumed the handles beside are for pitch control. - Wurger set me straight in the next post that the smaller handles are for the turbochargers}

 

[Wurger]

As memo serves the Ju-388 fuel injection pump had the control input from the Kommandogerät. So it would suggest that the mechanical ECU was used for the BMW engines of the kite. The two longer levers in the cockpit were the throttles for the R and L engine. The smaller ones for the turbine control of the R and L engine.

A Tour of the Cockpit

As memo serves the Ju-388 fuel injection pump had the control input from the Kommandogerät.

Yep ... The control spindle , labeled "Steuerwelle vom Kommandogerät" , servo-operated from the automatic control unit,

the source: BMW 801 Fuel Injection Pump

 

[chris ballance]

Thank you Wurger for Ju 388 controls description. Handles for the turbochargers makes more sense.


I saw photos of this fuel injection pump and the label "Steuerwelle vom Kommandogerät" when trying to find an answer before posting my question. But I didn't Google translate "control shaft"
I wonder if this pump was restored like all those old tools, toys, and guns people make YouTube videos about?

 

[Wurger]

Actually I haven't seen any YouTube video about that. Also the article at the Junkers Ju 388 hasn't been updated so far.

 

[chris ballance]

Actually I haven't seen any YouTube video about that. Also the article at the Junkers Ju 388 hasn't been updated so far.

The link to the German Ju 388 site is great! I don't speak German, but can google translate my way through it.

 

[Wurger]

 

[Snautzer01]

A Tour of the Cockpit

 

[chris ballance]

Has anyone seen a photo showing engine controls of the Ju 88R or another variant with BMW 801 engine similar to this one from a Ju 88D (assuming Ju 88 D-1/Trop, Werk Nr. 430650 with Jumo engine controls currently at the USAF Museum in Dayton)? I was looking for cockpit photos of Ju 88 R-1, Werk Nr. 360043 at the RAF Museum, but have not yet found them.

 

[chris ballance]

Thanks Snautzer01, missed the English tab on the site bar.

The Ju 388 evaluation report on ju388.de is interesting:

"...the unified engine control, which automatically selects the correct propeller pitch and fuel mixture for any power settings, is well adapted to the power plant, and is a desirable feature since it relieves the pilot of individual attention to these items."

"The "Kommandogerat" or "master control" units functioned well throughout testing..."

 

[chris ballance]

This photo of a Ju 290 cockpit (4 x BMW 801G) was posted in this forum. It's a little difficult to make out. Looks like for 4 throttles in the center, five handles beside the co-pilot. Three lower handles each side of the center?

 

[chris ballance]

Just got a hold of Robert Forsyth's book on Ju-188 units and can't find the photo he has of the Ju 188E pilot's engine control console, but just two throttle handles so similar or same Kommandogerat

 

[chris ballance]

The following NACA report from 1945 details a Kommandogerät from a BMW 801D2. The report implies the system was common to all 801 engines, and explains in detail it's operation.

Characteristics of the BMW 801D2 Automatic Engine Control as Determined from Bench Tests - NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)

 

[Deleted member 68059]

It would be more or less impossible for them NOT to have the control unit, you cant just leave it off and shove in a few cables and dials -
there would be no way to control the injection system for a start.

 

[chris ballance]

It would be more or less impossible for them NOT to have the control unit, you cant just leave it off and shove in a few cables and dials -
there would be no way to control the injection system for a start.

Yes, I'm starting to understand just how much the engine control system did. But did all the 801s have the same Kommandogerät. The Ju 388 had a separate controls for the 801 TJ turbochargers. Did that require hardware changes to engine controls beyond leaving off the control shaft connection for the supercharger? Or are handles in the Ju 388 cockpit for the turbos just for manual control?
A related question applies to flight tests of 801E/F prototypes.

 

[Deleted member 68059]

Yes, I'm starting to understand just how much the engine control system did. But did all the 801s have the same Kommandogerät. The Ju 388 had a separate controls for the 801 TJ turbochargers. Did that require hardware changes to engine controls beyond leaving off the control shaft connection for the supercharger? Or are handles in the Ju 388 cockpit for the turbos just for manual control?
A related question applies to flight tests of 801E/F prototypes.

This comprises what is I think the only archive materials I have which "might" answer this, note, this is NOT specific to the 388, its just an interrogation of a BMW
engineer talking about the 801-TJ

 

[chris ballance]

Thanks Calum for interrogation report section, I need to read the NACA report, watch the Greg's Aircraft and Automobiles YouTube series on the 801 and read a lot more other sources to have anything worthwhile to add. But these kinds of electromechanical computers are pretty cool.