feasibility of keeping WW I battleships around for WW II.

[Reluctant Poster]

I had thought you meant fragmentation shells suitable for ripping up soft targets and other general mayhem as opposed to the "beehive " type anti aircraft shells I have read about. I have never read that description about IJN ammo before. I thought that there were two different kinds of shells.
The things one learns here.

The shells were not effective in the AA role but were quite effective in the "ground attack" role wrecking 56 out of 87 aircraft parked on Henderson Field during the bombardment of Oct 13/14, 1942.

 

[SaparotRob]

I had thought it was two separate types of ammo. I did read that they weren't effective anti-air ordnance.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I had thought it was two separate types of ammo.

My understanding is that the Japanese also had standard HE shells as well. They would use both the HE and the "AA" shells for shore bombardments, to my knowledge.

 

[SaparotRob]

That's what I thought.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That's what I thought.

Right, and I'm wondering if that is not where a miscommunication might be. To be fair, most of what I've read about Hiei and Kirishima mention ammo loadout for "shore bombardment" but do not go into specifics. A couple mention that they had the "AA" shells in the turrets' ready-rooms too, but most don't specify. Most just say the immediate rounds to hand were not AP, but for bombardment duties.

I've read that Kirishima hit South Dakota with "AA" shells first, then switching to AP. Hiei, I think, had the same transition of ammunition shot two nights earlier.

 

[GrauGeist]

The IJN did have Anti-Aircraft rounds for their large caliber guns, including the 18.1" guns aboard Yamato and Musashi.

They were called Sanshikidan or "San Shiki" and often called "Beehive" rounds (as mentioned above).

They did use the San Shiki for shore bombardment, which were quite effective.
These shells were like monster flaming claymore mines on steroids.

 

[Reluctant Poster]

Right, and I'm wondering if that is not where a miscommunication might be. To be fair, most of what I've read about Hiei and Kirishima mention ammo loadout for "shore bombardment" but do not go into specifics. A couple mention that they had the "AA" shells in the turrets' ready-rooms too, but most don't specify. Most just say the immediate rounds to hand were not AP, but for bombardment duties.

I've read that Kirishima hit South Dakota with "AA" shells first, then switching to AP. Hiei, I think, had the same transition of ammunition shot two nights earlier.

Exactly
From Imperial Battleships:
!st Battle
"During the battle, KIRISHIMA fires 27 Type 1 AP, 22 Type 3 and 8 Type 0 incendiary 14-in shells, plus 313 secondary caliber shells."

2nd Battle
"Within the next few minutes KIRISHIMA fires a total of 117 14-inch shells (68 Type 3 incendiaries, 22 Type 0 Common and 27 Type 1 APC), scoring multiple hits with secondary and main guns. One Type 1 APC explodes against SOUTH DAKOTA's No. 3 turret's barbette."
In this case the Type 0 common is the HE shell. The APC hit took place late in the battle.

The bombardment of Henderson Field
"KONGO fires 435 14-in. shells (104 Type 3, 331 Type 1) and twenty-seven 6-in shells. HARUNA fires 433 14-in. shells (189 Type 0, 294 Type 1) and twenty-one 6-in shells.
The 1,378-lb HE Type 3 "Sanshikidan" is used by KONGO for the first time in action. Only KONGO receives them before departure because there are not enough available for both battleships. Originally designed as anti-aircraft rounds, each time-fused shell contains 480 incendiary (rubber thermite) tubes and 192 steel stays. The older Type 0 is similar to the Type 3, but their 1,000 incendiary tubes are filled with a mix of rosin, magnesium, barium and sulphuric acid. Some 1,485-lb. Type 1 AP shells are also fired."

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Exactly
From Imperial Battleships:
!st Battle
"During the battle, KIRISHIMA fires 27 Type 1 AP, 22 Type 3 and 8 Type 0 incendiary 14-in shells, plus 313 secondary caliber shells."

2nd Battle
"Within the next few minutes KIRISHIMA fires a total of 117 14-inch shells (68 Type 3 incendiaries, 22 Type 0 Common and 27 Type 1 APC), scoring multiple hits with secondary and main guns. One Type 1 APC explodes against SOUTH DAKOTA's No. 3 turret's barbette."
In this case the Type 0 common is the HE shell. The APC hit took place late in the battle.

The bombardment of Henderson Field
"KONGO fires 435 14-in. shells (104 Type 3, 331 Type 1) and twenty-seven 6-in shells. HARUNA fires 433 14-in. shells (189 Type 0, 294 Type 1) and twenty-one 6-in shells.
The 1,378-lb HE Type 3 "Sanshikidan" is used by KONGO for the first time in action. Only KONGO receives them before departure because there are not enough available for both battleships. Originally designed as anti-aircraft rounds, each time-fused shell contains 480 incendiary (rubber thermite) tubes and 192 steel stays. The older Type 0 is similar to the Type 3, but their 1,000 incendiary tubes are filled with a mix of rosin, magnesium, barium and sulphuric acid. Some 1,485-lb. Type 1 AP shells are also fired."

Thanks for the clarity, much appreciated. I'm just shocked I was somewhat right!

 

[delcyros]

Scharnhorst & Gneisenau were among the most succesful naval surface combatants of ww2. Combined they sank:

CV GLORIUS, 22,690ts
DD ARDENT, 1,773ts
DD ACASTA, 1,773ts
AMC RAWALPINDI, 16,697ts

additionally. the following merchant vessel were sank or captured by both vessels during north Atlantic raid in 1941
A D HUFF, 6,219ts
ATHELFOAM, 6,554ts
BIANCA, 5,668ts
BRITISH STRENGTH, 7,139ts
CHILIAN REEFER, 1,793ts
DEMERTON, 5,215ts
EMPIRE INDUSTRY, 3,721ts
GRANLI, 3,721ts
HARLESDEN, 5,483ts
KANTARA, 3,237ts
LUSTROUS, 6,156ts
MANGKAI, 8,298ts
MARATHON, 7,926ts
MYSOM, 4,564ts
POLYCARP, 6,405ts
RIO DORADO, 4,507ts
ROYAL CROWN, 4,388ts
SAN CASIMIRO, 8,046ts
SARDINIAN PRINCE, 3,491ts
SILVERFIR, 4,347ts
SIMNIA, 6,197ts
TRELAWNY, 4,689ts

by whatever metric this is considerable accomplishment for a small navy like the KM.