First Drone on Drone Air Combat

MIflyer

1st Sergeant
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May 30, 2011
Cape Canaveral
From Avweb:

"A Ukrainian surveillance drone has apparently won the first drone-on-drone dogfight by essentially allowing a Russian quadcopter to bounce off it. The video, which was released by a Ukrainian poster on Telegram, has now gone viral and it's unlikely to catch Hollywood's attention."

The Ukrainian drone is an off-the-shelf Mavic that appears to have been hovering over an empty patch of ground likely doing some reconnaissance. The Russian drone appears to size up its adversary before advancing and colliding with the Ukrainian aircraft. The video shot by the Ukrainian drone barely registers the impact and there's a brief glimpse of the attacking drone losing what appears to be a piece of propeller before tumbling out of sight."

 

SaparotRob

Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
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It's going to get more interesting. I just know someone is working on interceptor drones. Now if they can figure out how to fire through the propeller arc without shooting it off.
 

FLYBOYJ

"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Staff
Mod
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Consumer drones like the Mavic are real easy to bring down. Although a quad, they cannot fly on 3 props, so if you severely damage or destroy one blade, the drone will tumble down
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
I'm not sure what the Russian drone was, but the Ukrainian Mavic seems to take the collision fairly well.

And I'm not sure that a drone colliding with hovering drone qualifies as a "dogfight", though it does sound sensational.
 

MIflyer

1st Sergeant
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May 30, 2011
Cape Canaveral
I saw one video from UKR that showed a drone chasing a Russian one, and the Russian drone exploded. But you could not see anything being fired at it, nor do the UKR drones seem to have any projectiles that they fire. I can only assume that the UKR drone chased the Russian one into an area where it could be downed by ground fire. I have seen videos of UKR drones that are about the size of a card table, carrying 4 small bombs about the size of a Pringles can. There are many videos of them dropping those bombs on Russian targets, including one video where they were dropping them on a Russian APC and were just missing the open top hatch by less than a foot.

The Russians have been using some twin boom drones about 2/3 the size of a Cessna 150, powered by a Rotax piston engine. Supposedly they are made in Iran although the Russians deny that. They are used for bombing on missions apparently similar to that of a WWII V-1; in other words, conducting terror attacks. The UKR captured one intact and said it looked like drones that have been advertised by Iran.

Just saw a video showing that submersible drones have been built, capable of flying out over the water and then submerging and taking off again. Launch the Flying Sub!

Hey, was it a "dogfight" when fighters used to pull up alongside a V-1 and slip a wing under the flying bomb's and bank it so to upset it?
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
What I like about my Mavik II, is the props aren't one piece, they have swivels just outboard of the hub that allows some "give" if they strike something like a small branch.

Of course, plowing into a solid object with any sort of forward motion won't do it any good.
 

SaparotRob

Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
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It qualifies as a dogfight. I've heard that bricks were thrown, then pistols, then..... It's the dawn of a new form of aerial combat. There's going to be some diabolically clever little interceptors showing up. Radar guided multiple shot gun like weapons for thinning flocks of Shahed drones might be effective but once someone builds an aircraft, someone else will build another to shoot it down. Too many drone enthusiasts.
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
It qualifies as a dogfight. I've heard that bricks were thrown, then pistols, then..... It's the dawn of a new form of aerial combat. There's going to be some diabolically clever little interceptors showing up. Radar guided multiple shot gun like weapons for thinning flocks of Shahed drones might be effective but once someone builds an aircraft, someone else will build another to shoot it down. Too many drone enthusiasts.
A dogfight involves at least BCM (basic combat maneuvers), intentiinally ramming an opponent is not dogfighting.

Otherwise, the Japanese would be considered masters of dogfighting Allied warships. :lol:
 

GrauGeist

Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Soviet pilots in WWII used to ram German airplanes. And the XP-79 was specifically designed with reinforced leading edges so to facilitate ramming.

And I think that getting close enough to another airplane to ram it IS a basic combat maneuver.
The pilots of the Bulgarian Air Force were well accomplished at ramming American bombers during the war, so there is that.

But a stationary (hovering) target being rammed by another craft is much like diving your plane onto the deck of a warship, or trying to avoid telephone poles while driving home from the pub.
 

SaparotRob

Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
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That drone on drone fight counts. Manned aircraft fought as best they could with what they had at the time. One drone was maneuvered by its pilot to bring down the other. At this level of development (basically still enthusiast), this is the kind of fight you’ll get. My R/C friends were talking about this stuff in the ‘60s. I expect to see fixed wing “pursuit “ types. All manner of “weapons“, including nets, silly string, shot guns and other infernal devices for fun and merriment. You know the Ukrainian drones are going to have really cool graphics.
 

Zipper730

Chief Master Sergeant
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Nov 9, 2015
Soviet pilots in WWII used to ram German airplanes. And the XP-79 was specifically designed with reinforced leading edges so to facilitate ramming.
That seems to kind of be a bit of a myth that turned into an advertising pitch.

The XP-79 was to use a rocket motor which employed hypergolic propellants: It's leading edges did use armored leading-edges in order to protect them from battle damage. That said, when they switched to jets, that was retained. It might have been a good advertising pitch, but I wouldn't recommend doing this because, while there's no risk of hypergolic propellants, you'll have a pair of J30's that will suck in all sorts of debris. The flight-controls also used valves and asymmetric brakes for yaw-control which would be fodded up.
And I think that getting close enough to another airplane to ram it IS a basic combat maneuver.
Very basic...
 

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