First two F-16 in Poland!

Discussion in 'Modern' started by net_sailor, Nov 8, 2006.

  1. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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  2. mkloby

    mkloby Active Member

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    Nice pictures!
     
  3. Matt308

    Matt308 Glock Perfection
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    Wow! Block 52s even.
     
  4. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    I'm disappointed about only one thing - the lo-vis Polish markings. They should put the real ones on, just for a while, to make the point!
     
  5. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    The full color markings are too small for detection (that is an official explanation, not mine:lol: ). The low visibiily markings has a long tradition in Polish Air Force - see PZL P.11 undersides:
    http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/pzl11/pzl11_06.jpg
    I'm proud of my national markings, but i think it could be only red and grey.
    It is necessary also to restitute its historical apperance with left upper corner red! American painters shame you!


    Another pair arrived:
    Lotnictwo.net - zdjêcia
    Lotnictwo.net - zdjêcia
    Lotnictwo.net - zdjêcia
    Lotnictwo.net - zdjêcia
     
  6. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    Talking of Polish markings, it's interesting to see that the red upper corner was usually painted on the right side, on those French aircraft flown by Polish crews in 1939-40, ie Caudron CR714s and MS406s, essentially. And on PAF/RAF aircraft, it was upper...? Both?

    This has caused me considerable trouble, as I have had problems figuring out which way round is actually correct!

    A couple of screenies of Polish aircraft I've painted for CFS3 (got a PZL P-24 to do soon! :D )
     

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  7. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Good homework have you done ndicki! Those 2 particular aircraft have got right markings.
    Here is a chart of markings used on 1939 in Poland and later on 1940 in France:
    Znaki rozpoznawcze lotnictwa polskiego
    If you want I can translate the description.

    In PAF/RAF the small "chess-plate" were painted on the both sides of fuselage but there were a lot differences between aircraft even on the same squadron! Those shots of two Spits Mk.V belonged to 318 Sqn were taken in the same period:
    http://www.roman.biskupin.wroc.pl/dyw318zdj/4.jpg
    http://www.roman.biskupin.wroc.pl/dyw318zdj/2.jpg
    note the reversed colors.

    I know that Spitfite coded "ZX-6" is very attractive (a lot of victory markings :D) but your camouflage type is incorret. The last research indicate that it wear a standard European camo. I adwise just to change the code number for "ZX-1" EN 459.
    Another note: on "African" Spits there were on technical stencils (usually were overpainted during applying a new tropical camo in field conditions).
    Summary: the basic rule "there's no rules"! Use only a pictorial documentation of particular exemplar!
     
  8. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    Useful!

    As for the cam used on ZX-6, I need to check that out. I went after the profile in the Osprey Late Mark Spit Aces, so I haven't seen a photo of that aircraft. Others in the Polish Fighting Team I have seen photos of appeared to have the desert cam.

    Interesting photos there, not just because of the Polish markings - it's the first time I have seen the MkV with Vokes filter AND six-stub exhausts. Unusual. The six-stub exhausts are usually seen on late clipped and cropped MkVb and Vc aircraft in England in 43-44, rather than in the Med. Goes to show!

    And if you do have a moment, I'd be glad for the translations of the captions explaining the markings. Thanks!
     
  9. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Here is the most known photo of ZX-6. Note the incorret profile (again!):
    Planes

    I know, but 318 Sqn was not just a fighter sqadron as other spitfire eqiuped Polish units. It carried out maily a low level recon task. This photo was taken in Italy at the end of 1944.


    This is my text translation. Enjoy...

    Markings types:

    (1) - Standard Polish marking used till September 1939
    (2) - Simplified (without white squares) marking painted on undersides of some combat aircrafts
    (3) - The mark used on some Polish aircrafts in France on 1940 (rotated square with reversed colours)
    (4) - The mark used on some Polish aircrafts in France on 1940 (there is overpainted French roundel still visible under red squares)
    (5) - Simplified marking used on some Polish aircrafts in France on 1940 (without red squares)
    (6) - Standard mark of French Armée de l'Air
    (7) - stripes in national colours painted on the rudders of French aircrafts


    The markings painting:

    The national markings (1) were painted on upper and down surfaces of the wings (for biplanes there were painted on the top of upper wing and on under surface of the lower wing) and both sides of the rudder. Markings on the top surfaces of the combat aircraft wings were pained unsymmetrical and in different distance from the leading edge. Simplified markings (2) were painted on the underwing surfaces oh the some types of aircrafts (ex. PZL P.7, P.11 and PZL-23) – but there are no detailed regulations known.

    The national markings from (3) till (5) on Polish aircrafts in France were painted on both surfaces of the fuselages – mainly in GC I/145 fighter squadron and some training aircrafts on Lyon-Bron base.
    The national French markings (6) were left on the upper surface of the wings, as well stripes in national colours painted on the rudder botch surfaces (7). The mark (3) sometimes appear as (4) when French roundel was still visible under a thin layer of red paint. A “incomplete” squares (5) with only white parts painted on the French roundels also were used.
     
  10. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    Looking at that picture of ZX-6, I can't say with any certainty which scheme it is - how are you so certain? The others are clearly in Middle Stone/Dark Earth.
     
  11. net_sailor

    net_sailor Active Member

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    Exaclty!
    You know... I'm not so wise, I just read about this in wise books. There is an interpretation submitted by Wojtek Matusiak - well known Polish Spitfire expert. He say tere is no evicence (sharp pictures or documents) to support theory of tropical camo on this a/c and I just believie him.
     
  12. ndicki

    ndicki Member

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    OK, you had me worried. I can't say why he holds this belief - the other aircraft were in desert cam, as your photo proves; I'll have to read what he says! (Probably can't, owing to lack of Polish...)
     
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