Found on Northumberland (UK) beach. Can you help identify please.

[Dave Welch]

First time on here having found the forum looking for clues as to what this is and from what it is from (ASSUMING it is of aircraft origin).
Appears to be of aircraft grade aluminium and is well engineered.
The wheel seems to have some sort of coating on it.
Traces of dark green paint with a very faint oval and lettering. Pic 918
Measures 4.5" x 4.5" x 6.5". Pulley wheel diameter is approx 3 5/8". Pivot bolt thread is about 3/8".
Measurements of the various components seem to be more imperial than metric.
Research shows numerous crashes and ditchings up and down this coastline over the last hundred years including Spitfires, Hudsons, FE2b s and more recently a Vampire and Tornado.
Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

That is a flight control cable pully. From what aircraft I cannot tell you.

The "wheel" is the pulley, and looks like it is made out of phenolic construction, and the flight control cable runs on it.

Looks like a standard pully found in most aircraft, including the bracket it is mounted too.

 

[FluxCapacitance]

Nice find! I agree with Adler. That is definitely an aircraft control pulley and bracket made for a ~45-90 degree change (typically forward of the aileron, at the wing root or where there's a change in direction). A lot of times the flight control loop will rip out as a unit when the cable rips through the structures - taking the pulleys and brackets with it. The rivets unzipped on the base (they look undershot) and the bolt on the opposite flange tore out, but looks like when the cable (ball end?) went through the bracket hole it didn't damage it. I'm blowing a lot of smoke here. I'm pretty sure it's not off a Spit.

 

[Dave Welch]

Much appreciated chaps!!
Ime going to make a list of possible aircraft but determining how far to look up and down the coast is difficult as we have no idea how far debris can move over seventy odd years.

Thanks again

Dave

 

[FluxCapacitance]

Much appreciated chaps!!
Ime going to make a list of possible aircraft but determining how far to look up and down the coast is difficult as we have no idea how far debris can move over seventy odd years.

Thanks again

Dave

Just looking at it some more, the key to finding whether or not it is British or American would be the hardware securing the cable guards. Particularly the thread pitch and the nut design. The pulleys are standard US issue, but may have been used later by the UK. The British wartime pulleys tended to be metal with holes. Hope that helps.

Just a wild guess too. The bolt end (were the hole tore through) might be were it was affixed to a spar or primary structure. The rivet row that is perpendicular would have gone along the skin, such as inline with a wing rib or even a stringer.

 

[Dave Welch]

Thanks Flux
Will have a go but they are pretty corroded.

Dave

 

[Sutts]

Nice find. The black paint would be more associated with a British bomber than something US made I think. US aircraft used greens, yellows and yellowy greens or just unpainted on the internals from what I can remember. Can you clean up the oval marking and see if you can make out a name or part number? I can help you trace a B-17 or Lancaster part number.

 

[ODonovan]

Is that an image of an anchor on the side? If so, check for it being a mooring or anchor cable pulley, from a seaplane.

Come to think of it, it may not even be from an aircraft at all, but from a small boat.



-Irish

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Is that an image of an anchor on the side? If so, check for it being a mooring or anchor cable pulley, from a seaplane.

Come to think of it, it may not even be from an aircraft at all, but from a small boat.



-Irish

What image are you talking about?

Due to the fact that there is a cotter pin installed on the nut, I am pretty sure that it is from an aircraft. Cotter pins are common safety devices on aircraft equipment, and especially on flight controls.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Is that an image of an anchor on the side? If so, check for it being a mooring or anchor cable pulley, from a seaplane.

Come to think of it, it may not even be from an aircraft at all, but from a small boat.



-Irish

Not even close!

It is definitely from an aircraft.

That's a pulley bracket quadrant. The cotter pin safety is typical of standard practices from the 30's and 40s. I'd guess primary flight control 3/16 to 1/8" cable, typical in many aircraft. Photo courtesy of cartertown.

 

[FluxCapacitance]

I agree with FlyboyJ, that is definitely for an aircraft. You can even see where the rivet tails were imprinted around the holes where they pulled through.

The oval stamp also looks like a British QC stamp. The ink might have been corrosive, but looks stamped. Metal stamping on aluminum sheetmetal primary structure was a no-no in the US because of fatigue but you see it a lot in the British warbirds. Bristol & Hawker QC stamps were oval. DeHavilland, Supermarine seem to have round. Hawker had both. Often the first two letters designated the make or system.

If US made, another clue could be found on the bolt heads. Are there any symbols/bumps legible on them?

Both the US and Britain used black primer in places as well, particularly in areas where glare might be an issue. There's a few pics of the Hudson with black primer, but hard to say if it was original in those cases.

I enjoy donning my tin hat!

 

[Sutts]

Some knowledgable fellas on this thread. Love the detective work.

This site is great for inspection marks but no British stuff:
Aviation Archaeology - Aircraft Inspection Stamps

However, the Douglas mark looks like a very close match.

 

[MiTasol]

What image are you talking about?

Due to the fact that there is a cotter pin installed on the nut, I am pretty sure that it is from an aircraft. Cotter pins are common safety devices on aircraft equipment, and especially on flight controls.

And the way the cotter pin is installed suggests a RAF operated aircraft as the Americans required the cotter pin inserted so the whole head enters one castellation and then you fold one leg back over the bolt and the other down towards, but not touching, the washer.

The Brits required both the legs to wrap around but they also required the ends to be inserted in the next castellation which yours are not - probably not unusual if done in a hurry or no inspector around. Sorry I cannot quickly find a Brit basics manual for a drawing

 

[Dave Welch]

Some knowledgable fellas on this thread. Love the detective work.

This site is great for inspection marks but no British stuff:
Aviation Archaeology - Aircraft Inspection Stamps

However, the Douglas mark looks like a very close match.
View attachment 526114

Looking through a magnifying glass, the letters in the oval appear to be either W OO or OO M depending on how you look at it. There may have been another letter within the space but corrosion has wiped it out.

 

[Dave Welch]

Some knowledgable fellas on this thread. Love the detective work.

This site is great for inspection marks but no British stuff:
Aviation Archaeology - Aircraft Inspection Stamps

However, the Douglas mark looks like a very close match.
View attachment 526114

Looking through a magnifying glass, the letters in the oval appear to be either W OO or OO M depending on how you look at it. There may have been another letter within the space but corrosion has wiped it out.

 

[Dave Welch]

I agree with FlyboyJ, that is definitely for an aircraft. You can even see where the rivet tails were imprinted around the holes where they pulled through.

The oval stamp also looks like a British QC stamp. The ink might have been corrosive, but looks stamped. Metal stamping on aluminum sheetmetal primary structure was a no-no in the US because of fatigue but you see it a lot in the British warbirds. Bristol & Hawker QC stamps were oval. DeHavilland, Supermarine seem to have round. Hawker had both. Often the first two letters designated the make or system.

If US made, another clue could be found on the bolt heads. Are there any symbols/bumps legible on them?

Both the US and Britain used black primer in places as well, particularly in areas where glare might be an issue. There's a few pics of the Hudson with black primer, but hard to say if it was original in those cases.

I enjoy donning my tin hat!

All far too corroded Ime afraid. Dave

 

[Dave Welch]

That magnifying glass has bought up a stamp 536586 (a bit of a guess with the last figure). You cannot see it with the naked eye!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

And the way the cotter pin is installed suggests a RAF operated aircraft as the Americans required the cotter pin inserted so the whole head enters one castellation and then you fold one leg back over the bolt and the other down towards, but not touching, the washer.
View attachment 526116View attachment 526120

The Brits required both the legs to wrap around but they also required the ends to be inserted in the next castellation which yours are not - probably not unusual if done in a hurry or no inspector around. Sorry I cannot quickly find a Brit basics manual for a drawing
View attachment 526117

That is still how the British prefer it done. When I worked on Hawker jets a few years ago we were required by the MM to do it so. On the American built aircraft, we could do it either way.

This is definately a standard flight control cable pulley.

 

[Dave Welch]

Thank you for your help chaps. I think we can say its from a WW2 British Aircraft and its a control surface pulley wheel, but from what aircraft?
Attached is a list of aircraft which crashed into the sea near to where I found it. The information is from a website covering North East England only and I cannot find any info on the Scottish coast which is only a few miles North. Another limitation is that the link for 1944 was not working. I have listed approximate mileages from the find site in red but who knows how far wreckage can move up and down the coast over 75 years.

 

[FluxCapacitance]

For a shear nut like that, it is common to see either way on US planes (Fig 7-7). I guess it depends on who you work for as a mechanic.

I've seen the AN320's used a lot as well and in those cases I would use the alternate (as in Fig7-7). Did the British use stainless steel on their cotter pins?

There were a lot of Douglas C-47s (DC-3s) used during the invasion as well. Still leaning with the gurus above towards British though.

Not sure if I helped much but I sure enjoyed it. Good fun.