Four Messerschmitt Bf 109Gs FOR SALE.

[Elmas]

By a technical point of view nothing (almost) is impossible....
It just depends from the thickness of the owner's wallet.....

 

[stona]

I just found this, which saves me a lot of typing.

Spitfire back in the air after 71 years - Telegraph

Steve

 

[grampi]

I wouldn't give two wooden nickels for the Spanish built versions...now the German built ones, that's a different story...

 

[gumbyk]

These aircraft are near pristine compared with some of the restorations undertaken on recovered WW2 aircraft. Yes, it will be an expensive business for a prospective new owner, but as someone said above, at least 90% of the work won't need doing.

Unfortunately, even though these are easy restorations in comparison to some I've seen (we've got a P-40 project here in worse condition than the Spitfire pic) there is still a lot of work to go in to bringing them back to airworthiness.

Greg has just listed a number of issues, and that list is going to get longer. The main problem with something like this is that someone buys it, and doesn't realise that there is still a full strip and rebuild basically needed.

 

[stona]

The main problem with something like this is that someone buys it, and doesn't realise that there is still a full strip and rebuild basically needed.

Then they'd be mad to buy one without either the expertise or taking advice from someone with that expertise. The sort of person who can afford something like this is unlikely to be stupid.
Cheers
Steve

 

[gumbyk]

Then they'd be mad to buy one without either the expertise or taking advice from someone with that expertise. The sort of person who can afford something like this is unlikely to be stupid.
Cheers
Steve

Really?

 

[nuuumannn]

but at the end of the day this was a 'Frame ?' (can't remember which frame a Spitfire data plate is attached to) restoration. There is very little of the original P9374 airframe flying today.

Frame Five. The firewall is Frame 5 and the tailplane attachment frame at the far end is Frame 19. Yep, you got that right. The aircraft would have been built from scratch using original Spitfire parts as templates. The dataplate is probably the only original component from the wreck left on it. Aircraft Restorations have built enough Spitfires to build them from scratch without using templates from that original wreck, but it helps if a wee bit of provenance, such as the data plate from the original wreck survives. This is essentially the basis of a frame five restoration; it doesn't matter what bits you have or how much is actually from the original wreckage, but as long as the dataplate survives and says its a mark whatever, then it's original!

Despite the externally complete condition of those Buchons, anyone seriously contemplating restoring them would carry out a thorough strip down and rebuild, no question about it. Because there is substantial remains doesn't make the job any easier or less maintenance intensive than, say 'rebuilding' that Spit.

 

[GregP]

I've spoken with a number of wealthy collectors, some with 30+ WWII aircraft. All but one said the first plane that was a total rebuild was WAY more expensive than he had at first figured, but the rest were in line with what he expected after having gone through the first one. One of them has a German-built Bf 109E on display at the Planes of Fame that was recovered from the botton of a Russian lake. He is deciding whether or not to restore this one or use it as template to build one from scratch. We don't know the answer yet. He may elect to just leave it static in the end ... it's all up to the owner. Right now it looks just like it did when it first dried out after being lifted from the lake except we have some tie-down straps holding the landing gear down and locked.

The real answer on expense depends largely on the goals of the restoration attempted. If you want to have a good-looking reliable flying aircraft, it is one thing. If you want every piece to be as it came from the factory, including adding period-correct cotton insulation over modern wires, putting on factory-correct wire lables, and having a complete WWII functioning instument panel, it is another thing entirely.

Paul Allen's collection is so authentic I believe they are in better shape than when they rolled off the assembly line. I'd bet HE knows what they cost to restore since his museum doesn't do restoration, he let's the experts do the restoration and he then shows it, flies it when he wants to allow it, and then they maintain the aircraft in that just-restored condition. They are real gems, but I don't know of any other warbirds in the U.S.A. quite so period-authentic and I don't know any other owners who WANT them quite so period authentic. Most peoploe who spring for a modern update aren't dead set on having it look like WWII hardware.

I've seen a really nice 2-seat Hawker Hunter with a complete modern all-glass cockpit. It was impressive but a former Hunter pilot who hasn't flown a Hunter since his service days might not even be able to start the engine much less operate the displays.

 

[nuuumannn]

The real answer on expense depends largely on the goals of the restoration attempted. If you want to have a good-looking reliable flying aircraft, it is one thing. If you want every piece to be as it came from the factory, including adding period-correct cotton insulation over modern wires, putting on factory-correct wire lables, and having a complete WWII functioning instument panel, it is another thing entirely.

Pretty much, Greg. Owners can make the darndest requests! The Buchons would be an interesting one because of the posibilities available. Since they are based on a Bf 109, do you restore them as a Buchon, but in Luftwaffe colours, or do you go the whole hog and convert to a German powerplant? Or do you go authentic and restore back to thecondition they were in in the Spanish Air Force? I don't think any flying Buchons are in this condition, most owners choose the Luftwaffe markings option. These aircraft, however have another provenance to consider. Their Battle of Britain period is now a part of history and warbird folklore, which makes it an historical option, so you can put them into their Battle of Britain configuration as they were modified for the film. One of the Buchons flying in the UK, that Aircraft restorations rebuilt if I can recall, has been restored as it was during the making of the movie and it look pretty neat. Not genuine Luftwaffe colours, but certainly historic and representative of the provenance of the aircraft.

 

[GregP]

Well said and an interesting option.

As for staying with the "movie scheme," we still operate our Vultee that was converted into a fake Aichi "Val" for the movie "Tora, Tora, Tora" in the movie configuration. It sill draws fans on "Japanese day" when we fly it, many times with the real Zero.

 

[stona]

Frame Five. Despite the externally complete condition of those Buchons, anyone seriously contemplating restoring them would carry out a thorough strip down and rebuild, no question about it. Because there is substantial remains doesn't make the job any easier or less maintenance intensive than, say 'rebuilding' that Spit.

Thanks, a frame 5 restoration then.

What someone returning those Buchons to flying condition would not have to do is fabricate 99% of the aeroplane. I agree of course that it would have to be stripped and rebuilt, but, for the most part, not re-manufactured.

Bolting a Daimler-Benz engine on the front would be a vast improvement for me. I never liked the look of the Buchon with an upside down engine. Whenever I watch the BoB film it grates with me more than the wobbly R/C Ju 87s

Cheers

Steve

 

[Elmas]

As it was said at the end of XIX century, when rich people was watching from the terrace of the Yacht Club their own boats racing in the Solent with professional crews:

"If you ask how much a boat will cost you, you simply can't afford her...."