Ad: This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. More information in Terms and rules
Thinking back to this old thread and topic, I think had the ultimatum to Admiral Marcel-Bruno Gensoul that the French fleet join the British come from a more senior leader than the Captain of HMS Ark Royal, things might have gone differently. He was a great admiral, but Sommerville or someone higher up screwed up here. Admiral Cunningham negotiated directly with the French admiral at Alexandria and successfully had the French agree to stand down and later to join the Wallies in the fight against the Germans.Like my old Citroen.
This is a non-starter.
All true, but that can be navigated through good diplomacy and pomp. Sommerville should have been briefed on whom he was dealing with and acted accordingly.Admiral Gensoul was a pompous, incompetent.
A French battle squadron arriving at Saigon in August 1940 might have rattled Japan's plans to invade in Sept
That's about all I had in mind. But a CV, a trio of BBs and several cruisers and destroyers, not matter how shoddy and/or obsolete arriving in Saigon for permanent, long term assignment will force Japan to consider its next move. Singapore has the largest drydock in the region and could help refit or at least maintain the French ships.A French Battle squadron would have been "showing the flag" and might have had success in a political/diplomatic role.
Well, the CV was beyond shoddy. Her propulsion system was a nightmare.That's about all I had in mind. But a CV, a trio of BBs and several cruisers and destroyers, not matter how shoddy and/or obsolete arriving in Saigon for permanent, long term assignment will force Japan to consider its next move. Singapore has the largest drydock in the region and could help refit or at least maintain the French ships.
Good for a bottom scrape and lube the fittings I suppose. And a refueling.You can't use Singapore drydock, well you can slide the French ship in to the dock but you have no spare boilers or boiler parts or any other fittings/parts short of modifying British ones to fit.
Petain was probably always in favour of an armistice if the Battle of France was lost. However, he couldn't have won that argument on his own. Wegand was critical, especially as Reynaud was worried about the effect on morale of sacking a second commander. So why not simply have the aircraft flying Wegand back from Syria crash or alternatively have the plane taking him to visit the Northern Armies (French, British and Belgian) on the 21st May crash. My problem is that I have no idea who would replace Gamelin or Wegand. The only good thing to say about Gamelin is that he did believe in democracy but his views were not that common in the French Army of 1940.
I think a minor war during the early 1930s may have encouraged reforms.The French problem in 1940 was more sociological than organizational. The country was riven into factions and that social division had seeped into the armed forces. The Army and Navy were both split on political lines. The Air Force had not the power to overcome that state of affairs. I don't think any leader could have rallied them at the point of the German offensive.
Ahh...sorry don't get it; If France decides to send most of of it's Army to e.g. Algeria and Tunesia in late Spring of 1940 and therefore has to abandon most of it's heavy gear - then who and with what are the remaining French forces in France to fight against the Wehrmacht? Since it would take weeks before to send and assemble them to Southern France.There is a number of 'France fights on' topics on the 'net, there is even a forum dedicated to the idea. So let's say French retreat as much of manpower and gear to the N. Africa, wreck what they cannot carry and what they have time to wreck, and continue to fight from late Spring of 1940 on.
Is this situation better for Germany or worse?
Seems to be pretty much on target.Ahh...sorry don't get it; If France decides to send most of of it's Army to e.g. Algeria and Tunesia in late Spring of 1940 and therefore has to abandon most of it's heavy gear - then who and with what are the remaining French forces in France to fight against the Wehrmacht? Since it would take weeks before to send and assemble them to Southern France.
Or is this "late Spring" supposed to be around the Dunkirk time-frame? - meaning France is already more or less beaten.
Which would in turn enable Hitler to install a Nazi friendly government (just as history) in southern France.
Ahh...sorry don't get it; If France decides to send most of of it's Army to e.g. Algeria and Tunesia in late Spring of 1940 and therefore has to abandon most of it's heavy gear - then who and with what are the remaining French forces in France to fight against the Wehrmacht? Since it would take weeks before to send and assemble them to Southern France.
Or is this "late Spring" supposed to be around the Dunkirk time-frame? - meaning France is already more or less beaten.
Which would in turn enable Hitler to install a Nazi friendly government (just as history) in southern France.
The French fleet arrives at Saigon before Sept 1940, over a year before Japan begin the war.The wise ones didn't see the demise of Repulse and Prince of Wales. I doubt the French would have fared better, especially in port.
Vichy France had intended to send a naval force to FIC, but the Germans vetoed it.France fights on from September away from the metropolitan France.
I think a minor war during the early 1930s may have encouraged reforms.
Italian-French War of 1933
Per Wikipedia... "In late 1932–early 1933, Mussolini planned to launch a surprise attack against both France and Yugoslavia that was to begin in August 1933.] Mussolini's planned war of 1933 was only stopped when he learned that the French Deuxième Bureau had broken the Italian military codes...ww2aircraft.net
A harbor/port is not a base.The wise ones didn't see the demise of Repulse and Prince of Wales. I doubt the French would have fared better, especially in port.
No, but WW2 accomplished what I'm suggesting a war with Italy in 1933 might have: the reformation of the French military. For starters, perhaps they'd skip having six entirely separate single-seat fighter programs enter service between 1938 and 1940.WWII itself didn't heal those divisions.
France fights on from September away from the metropolitan France.