German 262's shot down
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CobberKane
Banned
- 706
- Apr 4, 2012
ME 262s went down to the following fighters that I know of:
Spitfire IX and XIV
P47D
P51D
La-7
Tempest
Tempests were perhaps the most successful 262 killers, downing 20 of the Jets. It might be difficult to define exactly how many of these kills were 'during landing' - the 262 took a very long time to get up to full power after laeving the ground, and and also had a very long approach, so technically many of the kills might be said to be during landing or take-off even when they occurred kilometers from the airstrip.
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I don't know where the Tempest number came from but Thomas/Shores only gives 7 claims and 2 damaged Me262s.
drgondog
Major
The 8th FC were credited with (IIRC) ~ 139 air credits against German jets of all types and ~110 air to air victories over the Me 262. The 56th got 7 as the 'all P-47' equipped and I think the 78th and 353rd got a couple more before transitioning to 51's. The P-51 was close to 100 and the 8th FC lost 12-15 fighters to Me 262s.
Also the P-51B scored a couple in fall 1944 (Ditto P-47M in 1945) - but have to check for totals.
Thorlifter
Captain
So if the 8th shot down ~139 jets, how many losses did they suffer from the jets?
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
"The P-51 was close to 100 and the 8th FC lost 12-15 fighters to Me 262s."
or are you asking how many fighters and bombers?
or are you asking how many fighters and bombers?
Erich
the old Sage
after studying this very interesting question for over 25 years have come up with about 125 262's and Arado 234/Me 163's shot down. still the question is the reality of the LW jet fighter pilots claims. JG 7 claimed 450 allied/soviet A/C alone, hardly true ...........
Thorlifter
Captain
drgondog
Major
Thor - my 12-15 figure comes from a deep dive into the MACR's for 8th and 9th AF FC. I do not have bomber losses as I have not examined all the 8th 9th BC MACR's.
The reason I have 12 is there is a definite link between an Eyewitness Report on the Macr involving a P-51 in combat with 262s.
The additional three include those 'unknowns' in which 262s were identified in the area of loss.
johnbr
2nd Lieutenant
The Me 262 was like shooting ducks in a barrel on take off and landing.
Erich
the old Sage
you guys remember the piston-engine jet A/C kills thread we started and was never finsihed ........in aviation forum I believe.
drgondog
Major
Timing is everything - and also avoid the FW 190D airfield cover.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
We have an old thread that deals with recip/jet kills, not only from WW2 but in the post war years. I'll try to dig it up.
FLYBOYJ
"THE GREAT GAZOO"
Erich
the old Sage
that's the thread I was talking about Gentlemen..........thanks Joe, will come up with rough claims of Allied fighters by JG 7 alone.........soon. will admit the last weeks taking on Soviet aircraft and armor with R4M's is quite scant there is practically nothing listed or very very little but JG 7 was quite active out of the Prague area fields.
bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
are you including the mid air collisions? IIRC there were 2 or 3 of those between 262s and 51s. i know of 1 for sure but thought i read of a couple others. would award a plane to both sides??
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CobberKane
Banned
- 706
- Apr 4, 2012
A very well defended Duck. The LW used to line their approach and take-off runs with crazy mounts of flack - Tempests took such high losses from diving on landing 262s that they gave the tactic away.
Erich
the old Sage
A/F defense of jets totally depended on what was available, seems JG 7 gave a good account of itself with multiple 2cm Flakvierlings in place and specially selected locations, the other jet units a different story they used whatever they had, single 2cm mostly.
drgondog
Major
Cobber - in the winter/spring 1945 the collapse of terrritory by the Allies had one serious 'unintended' consequence. The withdrawal from airfields into a much more concentrated area brought a much higher concentration of 20mm flak to airfields like Letnany, Straubing, Oberpfhaffenhofen, Lechfeld, etc. The first three weeks of April 1945 strafing losses far exceeded the prior 5 months of strafing losses combined for 8th AF FC. For my father's group - which had the highest number of strafing credits for any fighter Group during WWII, you have to go back to August 1944, during heavy CAS in support of the breakout, to exceed April 1945.
