German Bomber-B Engines

Discussion in 'Engines' started by case.vw, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. case.vw

    case.vw New Member

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    I am in search for more information why the development of the DB 604, the Jumo 222 and BMW 802 failed. The British built the Napier Sabre, an equivalent to the DB 604. The Americans built the Pratt Whitney R-2800, also a R-18 engine, just like a BMW 802. The configuration of the Jumo 222 was one of a kind.

    I can't find much information about the development of these engines and why the projects were finally abandoned.

    Can someone help me?
     
  2. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

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    Hi Case,

    >I am in search for more information why the development of the DB 604, the Jumo 222 and BMW 802 failed.

    I believe in the case of the Jumo 222, one of the reason it didn't reach fruition is that the power requirement for this engine was stepped up twice - from 2000 HP to 2500 HP, then to 3000 HP - during the design process. Additionally, there seem to have been some materials-related difficulties resulting from the lack of strategic raw materials in war-time Germany - a problem underestimated at the beginning of the war.

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  3. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

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    The BMW 802 was a relatively straightforeward development of the 801, with 2 rows of 9 rather than 7.

    Much like the P&W R-2180 and R-2800, or Wright R-2600 and R-3350.

    I think the 802 just had too low development priorety and BMW was puting a lot of work into the problematic 803 design as well.
     
  4. case.vw

    case.vw New Member

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    Hohun, I found this information from you on LEMB:

    Jumo 222 - complete failure? - Luftwaffe Experten Message Board.

    Changing requirements is always a major problem during the development. Was this a common problem of the RLM, or was it also a problem from English and American administrations?
     
  5. case.vw

    case.vw New Member

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    I found an interessting quote in this thread:

    Air Warfare Forum :: View topic - Totally unknown German airplane

    Schnauferheinz wrote:

    Can someone confirm this story?
     
  6. Romantic Technofreak

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    The dissertation of Dr. Lutz Budrass: "Flugzeugindustrie und Luftrüstung in Deutschland 1918 - 1945" ended up in a thick book (publishing house Droste, Düsseldorf 1998 ).

    From page 725 to some following ones, he explains the generation of the failure of both Ju 288 and Jumo 222 by nothing but an administrative act by Field Marshal Milch. Goal was to destroy the position of power the Junkers trust as well as its general manager Heinrich Koppenberg had gained. In September 1941, Milch ordered the until then parallel development of the Ju 288 and Jumo 222 to be split. Neither aircraft nor engine had shown considerable flaws. The Jumo 222 was even cheaper in terms of labourforce cost and in use of strategic materials than the standard engine Jumo 211. The Ju 288 had laborously to be reconstruted to the use of a different engine (the Daimler-Benz coupled), while the Jumo 222 stood without aircraft to be used for. Koppenberg, who also had to face being sued for smuggling (Göring later turned that down) retired.

    Regards,RT
     
  7. Soren

    Soren Banned

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    Great info RT.
     
  8. HoHun

    HoHun Active Member

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    Hi Technofreak,

    >The dissertation of Dr. Lutz Budrass: "Flugzeugindustrie und Luftrüstung in Deutschland 1918 - 1945" ended up in a thick book (publishing house Droste, Düsseldorf 1998 ).

    What do you think of this book? Sounds promising, but seems to be fairly expensive, so I wonder if it's worth it ...

    Regards,

    Henning (HoHun)
     
  9. kool kitty89

    kool kitty89 Well-Known Member

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    Romantic Technofreak,
    Was the Jumo 222 easier to build and maintain compared to the 211 on an one to one basis, or relative to the 222's greater size and power?
     
  10. Romantic Technofreak

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    Thank you Soren.

    Henning,
    if it's only the money, spend it. The book is worth every € it costs. But what Budrass concentrates on is the development of the administrative level of the RLM and its predecessors and the relations of the Junkers trust to them. What we all would like to read is a comprehensive story about what the German aircraft industry would have been able to or not and what was only cancelled by administrative misdeterminations. Exactly that you cannot extract from this book - except the one find I quoted.

    Kool Kitty89,
    I read the given statement as "one to one basis". But if you read the statement as economist, you see that some values are missing. Use of non-strategic materials, employment of machine tools, transportation of components are not mentioned. Also, the statement is only meant about production, not about maintenance - although one might conclude an engine easier to produce is also easier to maintain.

    Regards, RT
     
  11. case.vw

    case.vw New Member

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    In a recommended list of literature on the History Facts website I found a reference to this book.

    Vajda, Ferenc A.; Dancey, Peter : German Aircraft Industry and Production 1933 - 1945 : Shrewsbury 1998 : Airlife : ISBN 1853108642

    Does anyone know and reccommend this book? The review on Amazon.com isn't very promissing.
     
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