German logistics, purchase programs and war booty, reality and alternatives 1935-43 (1 Viewer)

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My point is that a production line that is cranking out a few dozen guns a month might not be of interest to the Germans, they need hundreds or thousands of guns per month.
Germans can start increasing the production in Belgium, include the production line(s) in France, and make the guns in Germany proper. Or, don't make a single HMG in Germany proper, make more of the 20mm weapons there instead.
The German need for the HMGs was far lower than their need for the 20mm cannons, that were favored weapons in all 3 Wehrmacht arms.

They had also been working on their own MG 131 since at least 1938 and they were specifying it in number of aircraft in 1939-40 (shows up in some of the FW 187 specs).
Now it doesn't seem to have gone quite as planned and the MG 131 seems to have started trickling into Luftwaffe service in the spring of 1941 in bombers. For a gun that was supposed to have been fitted into cowl mounts that took quite a while to happen.
By the same token, the Belgian Browning could've been trickling on the German bombers from 1941 on.
The MG 131 shows in the 1942 drawings for the Fw 187. It shows in the very early drawings for the Fw 190, as an wing-mounted synchronised weapon, but that place was quickly taken by a more substantial weapon, as one can expect.

Now the American .50 cal was certainly not in great shape in 1940 or 41 but for some reason everybody assumes that the Belgian version was ready go, reliable and durable and available in large numbers in the summer of 1940.
It took ten factories in the US to satisfy the demand for .50 cal guns at it's peak during the war.
German position on HMGs is very much removed from the US position on HMGs. They can opt not to make a single HMG and their combat effectiveness is not changed by a single iota.
Nobody said that the Belgian Browning was available in large number in the summer of 1940. Seems like it was more ready to go than the MG 131, though, and it was certainly more powerful of the two.

The Germans don't seem to have had FN build very many (or any?) BARs and FN had the tooling to make BARs and even offered a quick change barrel version for sale in 1930s.

BAR probably didn't offer anything over the MG 34, 42, ZB 26 and ZB 39, nor it was filling a niche that was present. Perhaps supplying the raw materials for these MGs was seen as the more prudent move than supplying the raw materials for the BAR?
OTOH, Germans sometimes (many times) didn't seem interested in the foreign designs as-is (bar what they found in the warehouses) until the proverbial hit the fan? Even their usage of the Czech factories was meh, IMO, until 1942, eg. the capable sFH 37(t) went nowhere.

I don't have reasons. But there was a lot of tooling in the FN factory for all sorts of weapons. The question is how much tooling they actually had for the 13.2mm machine gun and if the 13.2mm machine gun was actually a finished ready to go project. Or was it pretty much in the same state the US .50 was? unreliable in high altitude cold weather, feed problems while pulling Gs and so on. The Swedes and Finns had a while to sort out the problems.
Again, see this from the German perspective. They also have months to test and, need be, debug the Belgian Browning, and it is not a weapon that will make or break their warfare anyway.
 
The whole things that cold had make the wwii different and mayby an Axis victory was a Italy more competent that take North afrika and middle east alone in 1940/41
 
If we are talking about licensed production, then perhaps a better choice is the Gebauer GKM in the version with two barrels and engine drive. 44kg and 2000-2600 rpg (admittedly Breda 12.7x81 but I guess 13.1mm can also be used in the wiff section 😉). There was also a single barrel gas variant.
Wiki have article on it.

BAR, I think, it was also made in Poland in Mauser caliber and I hear/read somewhere that some early SS formations had it?

@ Reluctant Poster

Unfortunately, I don't have blueprints or full specifications for the Sentinel wagon, but the point of the condenser is that its we trade it's weight for the huge hundreds of kilos of water it was driving anyway, and that it doesn't have to stop every 30 miles. Of course, it's just an idea without calculation, but if I remember correctly we talk about 400 kg (cca 800 lb) of water so...
 
I tedeschi possono iniziare ad aumentare la produzione in Belgio, includere la linea di produzione in Francia e produrre le armi in Germania vera e propria. Oppure, non produrre un singolo HMG in Germania vera e propria, ma produrre più armi da 20 mm lì.
La necessità tedesca di mitragliatrici pesanti era di gran lunga inferiore a quella dei cannoni da 20 mm, che erano le armi preferite da tutte e tre le armi della Wehrmacht.


Allo stesso modo, il Browning belga avrebbe potuto essere impiegato a pioggia sui bombardieri tedeschi a partire dal 1941.
L'MG 131 è presente nei disegni del 1942 per l'Fw 187. È presente nei primissimi disegni per l'Fw 190, come arma sincronizzata montata sulle ali, ma quel posto è stato rapidamente preso da un'arma più consistente, come ci si può aspettare.


La posizione tedesca sugli HMG è molto lontana dalla posizione statunitense sugli HMG. Possono scegliere di non costruire un singolo HMG e la loro efficacia in combattimento non cambia di un solo iota.
Nessuno ha detto che la Browning belga fosse disponibile in grandi quantità nell'estate del 1940. Sembra però che fosse più pronta all'uso della MG 131, ed era sicuramente più potente delle due.



BAR probabilmente non offriva nulla in più di MG 34, 42, ZB 26 e ZB 39, né stava riempiendo una nicchia che era presente. Forse fornire le materie prime per queste MG era considerata la mossa più prudente rispetto a fornire le materie prime per BAR?
D'altro canto, i tedeschi a volte (molte volte) non sembravano interessati ai progetti stranieri così come erano (tranne quello che trovavano nei magazzini) finché non è scoppiato il proverbiale incidente? Anche il loro utilizzo delle fabbriche ceche è stato meh , a mio parere, fino al 1942, ad esempio il valido sFH 37(t) non è andato da nessuna parte.


Di nuovo, guardate questo dalla prospettiva tedesca. Hanno anche mesi per testare e, se necessario, mettere a punto il Browning belga, e non è un'arma che farà la differenza nella loro guerra in ogni caso.
Belgian industries had some Blue print of engines or aircraft that could had helped germany?
 

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