Gunner kills

[fer-de-lance]

According to a survey compiled by Jim Sawruk, USN PB4Y gunners were credited with 313 air-to-air victories.

Of these, over 120 were multi-engine aircraft. Many were enemy patrol planes that were actively hunted down by the PB4Y. Some were confirmed with photos of the wreckage in the water. Many of the original combat reports were scheduled for destruction since they had not been declassified after the war. Thanks to the efforts of Bob Cressman, most were preserved (and declassified and made available for research).

Jim launched into this project following a casual conversation about how it was "amazing that PB4Y's had been credited with shooting down many enemy aircraft but very few published accounts exist ..."

This has been a tremendous effort. Where details were lacking in the official report, Jim had filled in the gaps with things like the a diary kept by the commanding officer.

http://www.history.navy.mil/avh-vol2/Appen4.pdf

Late in the war, PB4Y-2 conducting mining and antishipping strike missions out of Okinawa frequently encountered JAAF and JNAF fighters from Korea and Japan. The PB4Y-2 generally defended themselves very well, scoring a number of kills that can be confirmed in Japanese records.

Some examples:

May 17, 1945 off Nagasaki: two VPB-109 PB4Y-2 fought off attacks by 11 Kawanishi N1K2 Shiden-Kai from the 343th Kokutai, JNAF, shooting down two (killing both pilots). Both PB4Y-2 were damaged with 3 crewmen injured but returned to Okinawa safely.

May 31, 1945 southern coast of Korea north of Cheju-do: two VPB-123 PB4Y-2 combined to shoot down the Ki-84 Hayate killing the command officer of the 22nd Sentai based in Suwon. Both PB4Y-2 returned safely to base.

June 17(USN record)/18 (JAAF record; discrepancy due to international date-line), 1945 near Kunsan: two VPB-102 PB4Y-2 shared in the downing of a Ki-44 "Shoki" from the 85th Sentai killing the pilot. Both PB4Y-2 returned safely to base.

July 24, 1945 north of Cheju-do: two VPB-124 PB4Y-2 combined to shoot down a Ki-84 Hayate of the 25th Sentai based at Kunsan. The JAAF pilot was killed and both PB4Y-2 returned safely to base.

There is also a curious case of the JAAF 12th flight training unit based in Suwon, Korea losing a pilot on June 5, 1945 (Japan time) while intercepting PBY (sic) off Kunsan. This loss does not match with any claim in Jim Sawruk's survey. A June 4th (US time) claim for a "Jack" (J2M) shared by two VPB-102 PB4Y-2 occurred off the east coast of Japan. There were no claims on June 5th US time.

Looks like the PB4Y-2 gunners had a pretty good success rate in late 1945. Wonder how it compared against the B-29 gunners during the same period. Would appreciate JoeB's insights here.

 

[JoeB]

The PB4Y-2 generally defended themselves very well, scoring a number of kills that can be confirmed in Japanese records.

Some examples:

1. May 17, 1945 off Nagasaki: two VPB-109 PB4Y-2 fought off attacks by 11 Kawanishi N1K2 Shiden-Kai from the 343th Kokutai, JNAF, shooting down two (killing both pilots). Both PB4Y-2 were damaged with 3 crewmen injured but returned to Okinawa safely.
2. May 31, 1945 southern coast of Korea north of Cheju-do: two VPB-123 PB4Y-2 combined to shoot down the Ki-84 Hayate killing the command officer of the 22nd Sentai based in Suwon.
3. June 17(USN record)/18 (JAAF record; discrepancy due to international date-line),
4. July 24, 1945 north of Cheju-do: two VPB-124 PB4Y-2 combined to shoot down a Ki-84 Hayate of the 25th Sentai based at Kunsan.

5. There is also a curious case of the JAAF 12th flight training unit based in Suwon, Korea losing a pilot on June 5, 1945 (Japan time) while intercepting PBY (sic) off Kunsan.

I was wondering the sources for each. 1. is in "Genda's Blade" by Sakaida, the US side is also given in "The Reluctant Raiders" by Carey about VPB-109. 2 and 4 are implied by the pilot casualty info in Hata/Izawa/Shores "JAAF Fighter Units and their Aces", but how about 3 and 5, or other sources for the others?

Another interesting success by Privateers against fighters happened in the Korean War era though not Korean War itself. Per Chinese official chronologies one of their MiG-15's and pilot were lost to return fire from a P4Y-2 (as by then designated) off the Chinese coast Nov 22 1952, although the VP-28 a/c attacked didn't make a claim. The 'B-29' claimed Sept 20 '52 over Shanghai as first homeland defence MiG-15 victory by the PLAAF was also a VP-28 a/c which escaped (web sources). PB4Y-2's had only one air combat in the Korean War itself I'm aware of, a Privateer of an unknown unit was briefly attacked by a probably NK prop fighter Feb 27 1952 (original records); their main role in actual Korean ops was as flare dropping a/c for Marine night attack a/c.

PB4Y-2's generally faced enemy a/c in tactical situations that facilitated accurate claiming, few on few; there are many dramatic photo's of the victims falling and there was less opportunity for duplication. Also in many cases the attackers were few, or as mentioned the PB4Y-2's were the aggressors. As in Aug 3 '45 incident described in Sakaida's "Pacific Air Combat", where 2 VBP-121 PB4Y-2's attacked and shot down a pair of F1M 'Pete' floatplanes of the Tateyama Kokutai which were trying to bomb the sub USS Aspro, which was trying to pick up a US pilot in Tokyo Bay, as one part of that strange multi-stage combat). PB4Y-2 claims appear to have been far more accurate than those of B-29's.

Joe

 

[fer-de-lance]

2, Hata/Izawa (JAAF Fighters), Japanese edition, p80 description of 22 Sentai commander attack "PBY" alone and failing to return

3. Hata/Izawa (JAAF Fighters), Japanese edition, p392 pilot casualty table

4. Hata/Izawa (JAAF Fighters), Japanese edition, p100 description of 25 Sentai engaging 2 "PBY" off Cheju-do July 24, claiming to shoot down both but losing Sgt. Yamaguchi

5. Hata/Izawa (JAAF Fighters), Japanese edition, p392 pilot casualty table notes: "PBY interception"

Yes, the engagement against MiG-15's of the PLAAF 2nd Division, 6th Regiment is almost certainly the last P4Y-2 air-to-air kill. (I was going to post it in the prop vs jet post-war thread The PLAAF pilot killed was He, Zhong-dao (何中道). Jim Sawruk had looked for the name of the USN crew involved but found that the information had not be declassified.

 

[Glider]

A slightly different type of gunner kills. L/Cpl Tom Neill and his gun team were credited with destroying or damaging 20 german aircraft during the battle for Crete.
It was unusual for a gound crew to see the crash of a plane that they hit hence the lack of detail, but as it was a 40mm, its safe to say that a number of the planes didn't make it home.