Help needed with Bf109 G6 PP+NO underside colour

[Wildsau]

I need help working out the actual colour used on the underside of this plane PP+NO. From the only 2 pictures I have ever seen both on the net an in books it looks to me that the underside has been painted over quite dark. I however could be entirely wrong and its still RLM 76. What is evident is the overpainting done to this plane all the way down vertically on the fueselage to the point where there is no clear demarkation with the underside.
You can see with each photo that the plane was in different states of service. My understanding is that the plane was a test platform for the FuG 217 radar, were they perhaps testing paint schemes as well?

Any experts here care to help me out.

 

[Wurger]

I would say that's the standard LW camo scheme used at that time , RLM74/75/76. with the demarcation line at the top of the fusealge. The sides of the fuselage were made darker by the RLM74/75 mottling.
The first images seems to be the colourized shot while the second one ( if it is the colour original ) seems to be of the wrong colour balance. Anyway I wouldn't use them for getting of the proper tinge of the camo paints.

BTW.. the tone of the RLM76 depended on a couple of things.. eg.. how many layers applied , was the background primed or it was of the bare metal, etc..

 

[Crimea_River]

I agree. At first I thought that the first pic looks like there is a dark underside. The demarcation on the fuselage between the 76 and the darker colour appears to be sharper than I would expect with a shadow on a curved surface. The shadow on the bottom of the white cross darkens gradually toward the underside whereas the portion between the cross and the wing trailing edge has a much sharper transition. However, if you look closely, you can see that the starboard landing gear cover is visible and is clearly a light colour which indicates to me that it's probably 76. The darker fuselage colour could be due to dirt and engine grime combined with the natural shadow.

On the second picture, you can clearly see that the lowermost stroke of the first letter P, being black, is still distinct from the surrounding fuselage colour which indicates to me that the fuselage is not black on the underside. This is a very high contrast photo and could lead to one thinking that the shadow colour is black but in my opinion, it's not.

 

[Wildsau]

Thanks for your response

 

[whstlngdeath]

Here are some pics of a retrofit kit available for 1/48 scale plastic models to convert a Bf-109G6 to the "Neptun" FuG 217 model. No idea of the accuracy or where they found their reference for the color of the livery. A description of the conversion kit in 1/48 scale:
Photo-Etched Conversion Set + DECALS

This kit converts your Bf 109 G-6 into a nightfighter version with FuG 217 called "Neptun"

Developed from the reverse warning device FuG 216 the FuG 217 "Neptun J" was tested in some Fw 190
and Bf 109 G-6 in summer of 1943. This parallel development of the SN-2 radar had been tested extensively
and had some advantages over the SN-2 radar.
Particularly its light weight and aerodynamic design caused nearly no Speed loss. On the other hand the
pilot became night blind for a short time after extensive staring at the light tube shortly before starting the
attack. In early 1944 about 35 Fw 190 and Bf 109 "nightfighters" had been equipped with the Fug 217,
and also saw combat successfully.

 

[Wildsau]

Here are some pics of a retrofit kit available for 1/48 scale plastic models to convert a Bf-109G6 to the "Neptun" FuG 217 model. No idea of the accuracy or where they found their reference for the color of the livery. A description of the conversion kit in 1/48 scale:
Photo-Etched Conversion Set + DECALS

This kit converts your Bf 109 G-6 into a nightfighter version with FuG 217 called "Neptun"

Developed from the reverse warning device FuG 216 the FuG 217 "Neptun J" was tested in some Fw 190
and Bf 109 G-6 in summer of 1943. This parallel development of the SN-2 radar had been tested extensively
and had some advantages over the SN-2 radar.
Particularly its light weight and aerodynamic design caused nearly no Speed loss. On the other hand the
pilot became night blind for a short time after extensive staring at the light tube shortly before starting the
attack. In early 1944 about 35 Fw 190 and Bf 109 "nightfighters" had been equipped with the Fug 217,
and also saw combat successfully.

Yeah that's the kit I'm using. I don't like his colour scheme I think it's too light, each to their own! My version is going to be much darker. Cheers for that.

 

[Milos Gazdic]

I don't like his colour scheme I think it's too light, each to their own! My version is going to be much darker. .

Dear Wildsau
Unfortunately, if you are trying to be realistic & represent the real nature of the color scheme and machine you are modeling - the colors have to be RLM 74/75 over 76. Making them darker might be your personal choice but then there is no reason for the research.

Of course, you are not forbidden to do so - since it's your model and you can do whatever you are pleased but...

 

[Wildsau]

Dear Wildsau
Unfortunately, if you are trying to be realistic & represent the real nature of the color scheme and machine you are modeling - the colors have to be RLM 74/75 over 76. Making them darker might be your personal choice but then there is no reason for the research.

Of course, you are not forbidden to do so - since it's your model and you can do whatever you are pleased but...

I agree the colours are 74, 75 and 76. These are the colours I'm using. In my opinion the colours in the airmodel plane do not come close to what the photos show, regardless of the poor quality of the photo's. Plus I am looking to achieve a somewhat grittier look more in line with the use of the plane as a testing platform and as well as what the plane looks like in the photo. This will obviously be different to real life depending on the quality of the photo's.

The responses have been very helpful for me confirming the correct colours, which I have stuck to.

As part of my learning process to develop new techniques with my painting I'm trying different methods, this is especially the case with this build as the kit quality is average at best, so it's a test and study platform for my modeling too. Shall i post a few pics of the finished version in this thread for all to see?

 

[Milos Gazdic]

Which model are you using for this build?

 

[Wurger]

Yeah that's the kit I'm using. I don't like his colour scheme I think it's too light, each to their own! My version is going to be much darker. Cheers for that.

The kind of profiles that come with kits can't be the taken for granted. Usually these are printed without paying attention to the correct tone of colours and mostly omitting the weathering. It is caused by limits to the way of colour printing in a box factory. So these must be treated as a general quide for the camo layout only. However it happens often that also the camo layout is incorrect. Therefore the pics are needed to check on that. But the colour images may be also quite incorrect in showing the correct colour tinges. It should be kept in mind that the colour photography at its early time wasn't too accurate in the colour copying as well. Using of filters for taking images , causes the wrong balance of colours what may result in the bluish tone of the entire photo for instance.

 

[Wildsau]

Which model are you using for this build?

Italeri 1/72

 

[Wildsau]

The kind of profiles that come with kits can't be the taken for granted. Usually these are printed without paying attention to the correct tone of colours and mostly omitting the weathering. It is caused by limits to the way of colour printing in a box factory. So these must be treated as a general quide for the camo layout only. However it happens often that also the camo layout is incorrect. Therefore the pics are needed to check on that. But the colour images may be also quite incorrect in showing the correct colour tinges. It should be kept in mind that the colour photography at its early time wasn't too accurate in the colour copying as well. Using of filters for taking images , causes the wrong balance of colours what may result in the bluish tone of the entire photo for instance.

Wurger yes I understand to be clear when I said kit I meant the airmodel conversion kit for the FUG217 radar that wslgdeath posted and his particular version of the plane thats all.

 

[Wurger]

OK.