drgondog
Major
Incomplete reference to P-39. Lots of 4+ shooters in P-51and F6F. Also in F4F and P-47 and P-38. Zero in P-39.
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Incomplete reference to P-39. Lots of 4+ shooters in P-51and F6F. Also in F4F and P-47 and P-38. Zero in P-39.Didn't WIlliam Shomo knock down seven in one mission, something like six Tonys and a Betty they were escorting flying an F-6D (Photo P-51D)?
But it makes for a good story, especially if the author is providing the reader accurate bits of info during the action (something the movies could learn from).
Everyone has been so incredibly helpful in their explanations. Much appreciated.Here are some examples of gun camera footage from engagements like you're describing: at about 3:00, a brief one at 4:59 and two more at 6:00. This is Spitfires and Bf109's or FW190's, but the action is generally the same as you're describing.
Well, spill the beans, what are, or will you be writing?Everyone has been so incredibly helpful in their explanations. Much appreciated.
Ha! Can't spill yet, but it's an article for Memorial Day. If it's published in the paper, I'll post a copy. Two of the men I'm writing about were WWII pilots, both KIA.Well, spill the beans, what are, or will you be writing?
A few authors post here, good luck, keep us posted.Ha! Can't spill yet, but it's an article for Memorial Day. If it's published in the paper, I'll post a copy. Two of the men I'm writing about were WWII pilots, both KIA.
That is close to classic beam to stern "Pursuit Curve Approach" to gunnery instruction for towed target where the attacking aircraft breaks off firing at 630 to 7 o'clock. Otherwise closer to a snap shot with a small amount of 'swing. along target track - but neither rudder or co-ordinated rudder/aileron flight would work at close range to keep the burst ahead of the target for a good deflection shot. At 200mph the target is traveling ~300 feet per sec - the point in front where the burst has to be directed for a hit on the nose. The 'just before nose crosses' would in fact have to be more than 300 feet in front of the nose to compensate for time the bullet(s) travel to hit.One Soviet ace (can't remember his name) has described his preferred attack against He 111. It was an attack from either side, "flat", gunfire buttons pressed just before the Heinkel's nose crosses the gunsight. The trick was to apply the rudder in the direction of the bomber's flight (probably compensating with the ailerons?). Shells/bullets would either damage the engine or rip the fuselage disabling the crew or both. Perfect 90-degree deflection, I think.
With a true 90 degree deflection shot, depending on speeds, number of guns and rate of fire it is possible to do everything perfectly and still miss, or hit with only one or two rounds. A Nakajima "Kate" (33ft long) doing 180MPH (264ft/sec) passes its own length in 1/8 second, how many bullets does a P-39 fire in 1/8 second.
Set to Wingspan - most targets have nearly same length as spanWith a gyro sight there would be a continuously curving approach I believe. It would be difficult to adjust the range (I imagine a thumb switch would be used)
As I understand it the problem with deflection shooting wasnt the basic principle of a deflection shot, it was that almost all pilots misjudged the range. So the "deflection" may have been correct for 200 yards but they were actually 800 yards away, as per drgondog's post the gyro sight helped with both issues.With a gyro sight there would be a continuously curving approach I believe. It would be difficult to adjust the range (I imagine a thumb switch would be used)
That is close to classic beam to stern "Pursuit Curve Approach" to gunnery instruction for towed target where the attacking aircraft breaks off firing at 630 to 7 o'clock. Otherwise closer to a snap shot with a small amount of 'swing. along target track - but neither rudder or co-ordinated rudder/aileron flight would work at close range to keep the burst ahead of the target for a good deflection shot. At 200mph the target is traveling ~300 feet per sec - the point in front where the burst has to be directed for a hit on the nose. The 'just before nose crosses' would in fact have to be more than 300 feet in front of the nose to compensate for time the bullet(s) travel to hit.
As I understand it the problem with deflection shooting wasnt the basic principle of a deflection shot, it was that almost all pilots misjudged the range. So the "deflection" may have been correct for 200 yards but they were actually 800 yards away, as per drgondog's post the gyro sight helped with both issues.
Ditto the P-39. The wing guns were just there to make the plane less maneuverable.
Non-aviator here--I'm writing about a P-39 over the South Pacific in WWII. In a steep bank, the pilot began firing on a Nakajima B5N from "a 90 degree deflection and closed in to 10 degrees". He scored a hit and the enemy aircraft went down in flames. Can someone explain this description to me? I assume a 90% defection would have required much skill (the pilot would have shot ahead of the target by estimating its distance and speed)? What would this have looked like from the pilot's perspective and also from the Kate's perspective?
The pilot destroyed three other enemy aircraft that day as well--one a Zeke that he attacked by firing a 10 degree deflection shot at a range of 200 yards, another, a Zeke-type, that he attacked by firing a 5 degree deflection shot at a range of 200 yards closing to 50 yards, and the last, a Tony that he overtook and in a rear attack, managed a 30 degree deflection shot.
Many thanks.
I stand corrected.No, NO, No,
they were there to ruin the climb and take up valuable fuel space.
I just don't know how the ring size was adjusted. Through a servo motor drive connected to a switch set on the joy stick would be best.
It didn't really work well till radar was used to range.