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The Tiger Force "Special Missions Wing" consisting of the Tallboy equipped 9 & 617 squadrons were expected to be established on Okinawa in time to participate in Operation Olympic scheduled for 1 Nov 1945. The first of two convoys carrying Airfield Construction Service units and their equipment left Britain in mid-July 1945 to travel to Okinawa via the Panama Canal and Pearl Harbor. The first contingent on SS Empress of Australia had reached Eniwetok by mid-Aug where they were held temporarily due to the war ending. They were then diverted to Hong Kong via the BPF base at Manus. Arriving HK in early Sept, they helped re-establish services for the civilian population in the colony......A commencement date for Tiger Force wasn't until early 1946,
I looked at this last night after your question:So circling back to the question of an early high altitude bomber:
What could.have been done to get the Stirling to meet that profile?
I know I've asked before, but it was missed in the conversation.
The 100 foot wingspan is one issue that could have been addressed.
What else could have been done to improve it's performance?
There was also a troop carrying requirement in Spec P.13/36 that led to the Manchester and the Halifax. IIRC it was 1940 before it was finally dropped from the requirements.The fuselage is longer and deeper - a product of a troop carrying requirement?
The aircraft in the on-deck circle for the B-29 was the B-32.The B-29 is still the benchmark. The aircraft has to be pressurised if you want the altitude performance, and then there is the range and payload, which should be able to match the B-29 on the atom bomb missions. It is a big ask, but realistically, there's no choice, otherwise the RAF acquires Washingtons, which defeats the purpose of a new big bomber. Let's face it, you are not really going to want to achieve the altitude performance without a pressurised airframe, so that means the Lancaster airframe is out.
in 1940 the proposed bombers were a lacking in engine development which lead to the 6 engine solution with had problems of it's own.To carry the bomb, Wallis has proposed the 6 engine "Victory" bomber.
The Short. Brothers were hunting in the right direction, though.I looked at this last night after your question:
Going from Wiki as I don't have anything better, it says the Stirling has the Sunderland's wing reduced/thickened to the 100' requirement... CheckingAeroweanie 's site, he has both using a modified Gottingen 436 airfoil...which is an 11% airfoil which doesn't impress me as a thick airfoil. (OK, max ordinance for top and bottom curves don't line up, but the max values for each still only add up to a 11.5 airfoil...) Can Short double the thickness and still call it a Gottengen 436 airfoil??
The Stirling is also heavy in comparison to the Lancaster - 49,600lbs empty compared to 36,900lbs. Even the Lincoln at 44,200lbs is lighter - which will affect load carrying, speed and ceiling.
The biggest drawback I see is the Hercules XI is a single stage single speed engine. The Bristol engines must have contributed heavily to the Stirling's low ceiling (16,500') compared to the Lancaster's (21,400'). The Hercules XVI with 2 speed drive probably would have went a long way to address this. But it's still way behind the Lancaster VI with 2 stage 2 speed Merlins (28,500' ceiling)<or 30,500' depending on source> Can Bristol cobble together a 2nd stage and air to air intercoolers to get the required altitude in "reasonable" timeframe? Can the Hercules be adequately cooled at the required altitude??
If you're sticking with 4 engines, the alternative is 4 - RR Griffons to get 2 stage 2 or 3 speeds. (I'm not considering the Centaurus or Sabre as they doesn't really have a high altitude versions either).
Without GE licensing (selling) its turbine technology to UK, turbocharging is a long steep hill to climb...
There was also the XB-39.The aircraft in the on-deck circle for the B-29 was the B-32.
XB-39 was an upgraded B-29There was also the XB-39.
The XB-39 was a backup plan for the B-29 in the event that the R-3350 engine issues were not resolved.XB-39 was an upgraded B-29
The XB-39 was a backup plan for the B-29 in the event that the R-3350 engine issues were not resolved.
The XB-39 was literally a re-engined B-29, having Allison V-3420 engines installed in place of the Duplex Cyclones.
It's performance was impressive, too.
To do it right -- need all crew spaces pressurized, not just the flight crew space. On the B-29 that included the mid section and the tail section.Another factor is when did they discover they needed a pressurized crew compartment at around 30,000ft? They developed the pressure cabin in the Wellingtons with a goal of 40,000ft.
The B-17 was supposed to operate above 30,000ft but................they couldn't. The Plane would, with some difficulties, but the crews could not. Oxygen masks and heated suits worked for a few hours, not 5-8 hours at the high 20s and low 30s. They needed pressure cabins, just not quite as much as flying at 40,000ft but you have to know that at the design stage or early development stage, and you have to be OK with dropping the big bomb at a lower altitude and having a lower impact speed (less penetration) or.................you need the heavier pressure cabin and the fancier engine installations to not just reach 40,000ft but actually operate at 40,000ft.
The added weight of a non-propulsive engine, plus the necessary ducting, intercoolers, and fuel load, would have eaten into payload, range, and overall efficiency. And all that complexity meant more maintenance headaches and more things to go wrong at 40,000 feet. In many ways, it was an elegant solution to a tough problem—but also one that created new trade-offs.One Lancaster high altitude proposal, equally applicable to the other heavies, was to mount a fifth engine in the fuselage to drive a supercharger whose high pressure air would be piped to the wing mounted engines. Of course this is extra fuel and mass but maintains low level power at height.
Quite so but it was something that could be incorporated into existing production. Obviously not seamlessly but still within a timescale far faster than a new design. How well the crew would cope with flying at an even higher altitude is another matter. The high altitude Wellington had a pressurised capsule for the crew.The added weight of a non-propulsive engine, plus the necessary ducting, intercoolers, and fuel load, would have eaten into payload, range, and overall efficiency. And all that complexity meant more maintenance headaches and more things to go wrong at 40,000 feet. In many ways, it was an elegant solution to a tough problem—but also one that created new trade-offs.
Seems very over complicated to me. The Merlin was one of the most advanced engines of the war. Just equip the propulsion plants with turbochargers like was done in the R-3350 and there will be enough airflow into all crew compartments.Quite so but it was something that could be incorporated into existing production. Obviously not seamlessly but still within a timescale far faster than a new design. How well the crew would cope with flying at an even higher altitude is another matter. The high altitude Wellington had a pressurised capsule for the crew.