MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Yes, and I wonder why. No room to launch them. Too crowded on the hangar deck?
Hornet Deck Load for the Doolittle Raid
- Thread starter pinehilljoe
- Start date
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If you study the various photos taken on board Hornet during the Doolittle raid, it becomes clear that there were movements of aircraft between hangar and flight deck and around the flight deck duing the voyage. For example:-
SBD aft, now you see them
Now you don't
Note the movement of the aftermost B-25s between photos 1 & 2. Looks like that created the space on the flight deck to bring up the 2 SBD.
And the F4F Wildcats forward:-
On 2 April 1942 just hours after sailing from San Francisco she had a blimp delivery. No F4F on deck at the forward end of the flight deck.
Later in the voyage:-
Note also how the foremost B-25 has been moved aft a bit. The windbreak was positioned just ahead of the forward lift. Raised in photo 3, but folded flat to the deck in photo 4.
ISTR reading somewhere that Hornet kept some F4F on the flight deck in case she ran across an unidentified intruder and needed to launch a CAP by catapult. The two flight deck catapult tracks are visible ahead of the windbreak. She also had an athwartship catapult on the hangar deck forward, but in practice these catapults were rarely used.
TF18 including Hornet left San Francisco on 2 April but did not hook up with TF16 & Enterprise until 13 April 1942, somewhere north of Hawaii. So having a CAP flight ready to launch might have been seen as a necessary precaution, although I would have thought that subs were a bigger threat. She supposedly took her entire 65 aircraft air group with her on that trip.
They were prepared to launch F4Fs either by main catapults or the hangar deck catapult against an intruder, but it would have been one way, as they couldn't recover, and would have had to bail out above the task force.
Here's a pix of an F6F hangar launch from Yorktown.
The hangar deck system was tested with F4Fs, F6Fs, TBDs, SBDs and even TBFs.
It was common when carrying aircraft or any cargo on the flight deck to space them widely apart when cruising to keep the strain off tie down pad-eyes and give extra spacing if lines broke or came loose.
They were still using hemp tie downs at the time, and a duty of the watch keepers was to constantly check on lines, tightening and re-tying as needed ... hangar deck and flight deck ... aircraft, spares, and yellow equipment. Been there, done that well into the '60s.
Here's a pix of an F6F hangar launch from Yorktown.
The hangar deck system was tested with F4Fs, F6Fs, TBDs, SBDs and even TBFs.
It was common when carrying aircraft or any cargo on the flight deck to space them widely apart when cruising to keep the strain off tie down pad-eyes and give extra spacing if lines broke or came loose.
They were still using hemp tie downs at the time, and a duty of the watch keepers was to constantly check on lines, tightening and re-tying as needed ... hangar deck and flight deck ... aircraft, spares, and yellow equipment. Been there, done that well into the '60s.
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Alan Stevens
Airman 1st Class
- 113
- May 24, 2023
They couldn't have landed on the Enterprise?
Viking1066
Chief Master Sergeant
Great photos!
My bad ... that was if Enterprise was sunk (subs and mines were a big threat) or detached.
Remember, the orders emphasized protection of carriers over the B-25s. If attacked out of range to Japan, the bombers would be pushed over the side to allow carriers to escape.
Between 2 April 1942 when Hornet and the rest of TF18 left San Francisco and 13 April Enterprise wasn't present.
Enterprise, along with Lexington, spent the early months of 1942 carrying out raids on Japanese targets in the Central Pacific and as far south west as New Guinea. A little known series of operations. She had returned to PH in early March for a quick upgrade to her AA armament followed by a spell at sea training her air group. Enterprise & the rest of TF16 didn't link up with TF18, incl Hornet, until 13 April somewhere to the north of Hawaii.
So until that point Hornet and her group needed to defend themselves in the event of being discovered. After the link up, Enterprise was there to provide CAP & ASW cover for the combined force. Hornet began flying her own air group again just hours after launching the B-25s.
Hangar deck catapults were only fitted to the 3 Yorktown class, Wasp and the first 5 Essex class completed. In practice they were rarely used. It was later removed from Enterprise and the Essex class ships. In the latter it was replaced by a second flight deck catapult. All the later Essex class received 2 flight deck catapults from completion.
Map of route taken by TF18 & TF16 during the Doolittle raid.
Both Wake & Marcus Islands were occupied by the Japanese. Marcus had been a target for those early 1942 carrier strikes.
And a Hyperwar article about the weather conditions desired and actual during the raid.
And a note about Hornet's speed on launch say from her DANFS history:-
"Consequently, Hornet changed course into the wind, working up to 15 knots at 0803, 20 knots at 0810, and 22 knots at 0814; seven minutes later, Lt. Col. Doolittle's B-25 (40-2344) began heading for the bow ramp."
Newsreel footage of the launch. Note the heavy seas causing the flight deck to pitch. Also how the B-25s were airborne before reaching the forward end of the fight deck.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QjQd-6lB7-8
Wind over the deck - 46 knots (24 knot natural wind, 22 knots from carrier itself).
Both Wake & Marcus Islands were occupied by the Japanese. Marcus had been a target for those early 1942 carrier strikes.
And a Hyperwar article about the weather conditions desired and actual during the raid.
HyperWar: The First Raid on Japan (Aerology and Amphibious Warfare)
'Amphibious Operations: The First Raid on Japan, (Aerology and Amphibious Warfare) NAVAER 50-40T-4
www.ibiblio.org
And a note about Hornet's speed on launch say from her DANFS history:-
"Consequently, Hornet changed course into the wind, working up to 15 knots at 0803, 20 knots at 0810, and 22 knots at 0814; seven minutes later, Lt. Col. Doolittle's B-25 (40-2344) began heading for the bow ramp."
Newsreel footage of the launch. Note the heavy seas causing the flight deck to pitch. Also how the B-25s were airborne before reaching the forward end of the fight deck.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QjQd-6lB7-8
Wind over the deck - 46 knots (24 knot natural wind, 22 knots from carrier itself).
Peter Gunn
Master Sergeant
Lots of great info and photos in this one. 
- Thread starter
- #31
pinehilljoe
Senior Airman
- 743
- May 1, 2016
That's what I would call the Right Stuff.
Jimbob
Airman 1st Class
Jimbob
Airman 1st Class
Notice how all three B-25s were airborne by the time the nose cleared the island? Now, the circumstances are a bit different 50 years later. The CVN-70's flight deck is much larger (particularly longer), and there weren't 15 or 13 B-25s spotted behind giving them more space to take off. We don't know how fast CVN-70 was going, but it could have been much faster than the Hornet, and the seas were calm compared to the 1942 conditions. Finally, I'm sure the B-25s weren't nearly as heavily loaded in 1992, but all-in-all, this was a very impressive re-enaction. Great video!
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
That must've have taken a lot of coordination and signatures to make that happen. Pretty neat!
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