How Could The US Have Been More Prepared to Fight WW2?

[buffnut453]

You are being so negative, its possible to hit a battleship with one of these.

View attachment 585154

He's been banned...thankfully!

 

[Niceoldguy58]

After reading Dook's several entries it becomes clear he knows NOTHING about the process of designing and building aircraft, especially at a time where everything is done on PAPER. Nor does he seem to understand the process of setting up literally thousands of subcontractors, ensuring they have the capability to produce the parts, that the parts they produce are up to military specs and actually FIT, nor how long it took/takes to make machine tools and train their operators to actually produce the parts. And then, of course, there is slight problem of training mechanics, armorers, crews, building airfields and support facilities.

Even given the designs starting to be flight tested, etc. in 1940, these aircraft were so far from being combat-ready as to make them excellent targets but little else.

If one followed Dook's peculiar logic, the U.S. would have been exceptionally well equipped with obsolete, out-of-date aircraft designed in the mid-1930's. I can see German and Japanese fighter pilots licking their lips in anticipation of the high scores of kills they would have made on such aircraft -- which, even with the early versions of the aircraft we flew and fought in, was pretty much exactly the case. It is clear from the rapid and constant flow of modifications made during the war to the very aircraft Dook outlines that the U.S. had almost no concept of what modern combat really required of the weapons with which it was to be fought.

I don't think Dook should be banned. Every forum needs at least one blithering idiot to help illustrate the cost of such mindless drivel and bring out those who truly know what they are talking about and would like a round of historical fisticuffs even if dueling with an unarmed man.

shaking my head,

AlanG

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

But unfortunately, the mod and admin staff has to keep civility amongst the forum members. Otherwise it becomes complete chaos. He was incapable of civility or humility.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I suspect though, as the case with many internet trolls, this is not the last we will see of him. They always want the last word.

 

[GrauGeist]

I can see German and Japanese fighter pilots licking their lips in anticipation of the high scores of kills they would have made on such aircraft

Who were also flying fighters designed in the 30's...

 

[Airframes]

Isn't the last word the second of a pair, as in "off" ! ??

 

[pbehn]

The war could have been ended by 1943 just by banning golf, you heard it here first.

 

[swampyankee]

Well...that was all over quickly, wasn't it.

I don't think he could type very well...his name should have had an "R" instead of one of the "O"s.

Drok?

 

[pbehn]

He's been banned...thankfully!

It was fun while it lasted, some real howlers in there.

 

[swampyankee]

He's been banned...thankfully!

Maybe he should be allowed back in when and if he graduates middle school.

 

[Kevin J]

US Army Air Corp

Cancel all aircraft production, other than the aircraft noted below. Accelerate the design and production of the high altitude pressurized bomber to replace the B-17 as soon as possible.

Order 1,000 P-51 fighters with drop tanks. Train the P-51 pilots to perform both the fighter mission, the glide bomber mission, and the close air support mission. Deploy these fighters to the east coast.

Transfer the 69 US Army Air Corp P-38's to the US Marine Corp and move them to San Diego to provide coastal defense. Crane them aboard an escort carrier to move them to Oahu as soon as possible.

Send the 53 Allison powered P-51's to the west coast to provide coastal defense.

At all Pacific airfields ensure that you have significant anti-aircraft guns with sufficient ammunition stored near the guns. Build cement or thick dirt or sand bag walls around all anti-aircraft gun positions and add some camouflage.

Build underground bomb shelters, underground command, ammunition/weapons, and fuel storage at Hickam, Wheeler Field, Ewa, Midway, and Wake airfields.

Perform tests with B-17 and B-25 bombers attempting to bomb moving US Navy carriers and destroyers with sacks of flour. Also test the B-25 using the aerial torpedo against target vessels. Conduct other tests with the bombers attempting to bomb land targets to determine accuracy. Report findings to the President as soon as you get them.

Aquire 600 SBD dive bombers and station them on the east coast. Ask the manufacturer to increase the internal fuel storage and add drop tanks.



US Army
Increase the gun on the M4 Sherman tank to a 90mm as soon as possible and add "wet storage" to the ammunition. Ensure that you have sufficient stockpiles of M61 APCBC rounds.

Redesign and improve the bazooka so that it fires a warhead with a larger shaped charge that can actually destroy a tank.

Move 100 M3 Lee tanks to Schofield Barracks in Hawaii.

Train infantry units to call in close air support from fighter aircraft onto enemy positions and, during wartime, always have some fighter aircraft assigned to provide close air support to infantry.



US Navy
Stop using the single file convoy tactic for delivering cargo to England, use side by side by side sailing and make zig zagging mandatory.

Cancel all aircraft production as soon as possible except for the aircraft noted below.

Accelerate the production of the TBF and get it to the fleet more quickly. Also increase the internal fuel storage and add drop tanks to give it more range. Once the carriers receive the TBF move the TBD to shore stations to provide defense.

Increase the range of the SBD dive bomber by increasing the internal fuel storage and adding drop tanks.

As soon as possible test 30 submarine launched torpedo's and 30 air dropped torpedo's for performance. Report findings immediately to the US President. If malfunctions are realized, accelerate the repair and production of the improved torpedo's and be prepared to quickly send them out to forward locations in the Philippines, Midway, and Hawaii.

Accelerate the production of the Gato Class submarines and have them made at Manitowoc, Mare Island, and Groton shipyards. Move nine "R" class submarines to the Pacific. Move all "S", Tambor, and Gato Class submarines that are on the east coast to the Pacific as soon as possible. Keep the 7 "O" Class submarines on the east coast for training.

Modify all large, light, and escort aircraft carriers by adding a 10 degree angled landing deck that protrudes from the left side of the carrier. Move the arresting gear cables to line up with the new landing deck. This will enable you to recover and launch aircraft at the same time. Weld the central elevator so that it becomes part of the deck. Add two or three aircraft elevators to the right side of every carrier. This will allow you to move aircraft to the hanger while launching and recovering aircraft. Also, in two places in the hangar install sliding fire doors that can be closed quickly during general quarters to isolate any fires. Have overhead fire sprinklers and hand operated fire bottles installed through the entire hangar bay and have fire sprinklers built into the flight deck. Remove the heavy guns and their ammunition from Saratoga and Lexington and install double oerlikon anti-aircraft guns in place. Add significant anti-aircraft guns to all aircraft carriers.

Quickly design and build new large aircraft carriers with all of the above changes and station the carriers at Bremerton, Washington.

Once all Atlantic aircraft carriers are modified at Norfolk move them to San Diego for permanent assignment.

On every destroyer completely remove the #3 and #5 turrets and guns. This will greatly reduce and lower the topside weight on every destroyer. Double up the #1, #2, and #4 turrets with two 5" guns and install a quad .50 cal anti-aircraft gun in the center of those turrets.

The next destroyer model will be wider by 4 feet and have all of the above changes incorporated into the design

At sea always have two or three destroyers close in on each side of each carrier to provide anti-aircraft defense and torpedo defense. The destroyers should use their own ship to intercept a torpedo if possible. Reduce the destroyer crews to just above the minimum necessary to reduce the possible loss of life. Increase the total number of destroyers to 120 with at least 80 of them assigned to the Pacific.

Order 1,000 naval versions of the P-51 fighter to replace all carrier fighters. Add a tailhook, wingfold, and drop tanks to the original design.

Ask Douglas to produce a naval version of the A-20 Havoc that has more internal fuel storage (1,800 miles total range), a much lower takeoff speed (much less than 100 mph), wingfold, a tailhook, and the ability to carry two torpedo's internally (one above the other).

Increase the internal fuel storage of the SBD dive bomber, add drop tanks, and modify all active SBD's.

Build seven more tanker ships and move them to the west coast.

Establish two construction companies with all necessary construction equipment and move them to Guam and have them build a Marine Corp airbase and a Navy airbase with significant port facilities.

As the F4 is replaced by the naval P-51 aboard aircraft carriers move the F4 to shore bases at Oahu and the mainland to provide some home defense.

Train all fighter pilots to perform the close air support role. Work with the Army Air Corp and Marines to standardize the terminology used. In wartime, always assign fighter aircraft to the close air support role.

Work with the US Marines and US Army to enable them to call in fire support from battleships, cruisers, and destroyers.

Order flag officers on Hawaii to communicate better with Army and Marine flag officers on Hawaii so that each service knows what the other is doing in regards to conducting search and patrol missions and ensure each service always has fighter aircraft on alert.

At all Pacific bases build sufficient anti-aircraft positions with cement or sand bag walls and some camouflage.

Work with the US Army Air Corp to perform tests with B-17 and B-25 bombers attempting to bomb moving carriers and moving destroyers with sacks of flour. Move all topside personel and aircraft below during these tests.

Order 60 LST, 60 LCT, and 60 LSM built. Assign half of them to the Pacific to move M4 Sherman tanks and amphibious assault vehicles from the US mainland to Hawaii and on to Midway, Wake, and Guam. The other landing ships and craft will be stationed on the US east coast.

Increase the submarine repair capability at Guam so they can completely overhaul submarines there so the submarines don't have to sail all the way back to the west coast.

Install anti-torpedo nets outboard of the carriers and battleships in port at every Pacific base including Pearl Harbor.

Standardize terminology used by patrol aircraft so the aircrews know to report their aircraft number, ship type, course, speed, and number of ships. Train Pacific PBY aircrews by having them go out and find carrier groups and other ships and report their positions.

Have the radar stations on Oahu report all large unknown contacts to Admiral Kimmel's and General Short's aides. Those flag officers will make the decision to alert fighter pilots, anti-aircraft guns, and other commands. Train the radar units by conducting mock air raids.

Heavily reinforce the following locations with at least the following:

New London
30 Gato Class submarines

30 F4

30 TBF



Norfolk
100 F4

50 TBF



San Diego
50 F4

50 TBF

1 escort carrier USS Charger to train navy pilots and move aircraft to Pearl Harbor



Pearl Harbor/Ford Island:
30 anti-aircraft guns with cement and sandbag walls for protection and some camouflage.

Build underground fuel storage, ammunition storage, bomb and torpedo storage, and build bomb shelters near the barracks.

80 F4 fighters from the carriers when they are replaced by P-51's

10 submarines

7 carriers

20 destroyers

2 sub tenders

20 PBY



Barbers Point
180 F4's, when replaced on carriers by the P-51

50 TBF



Ewa
90 P-40



NAS Guam:
Build a naval air station with at least three runways, underground command, fuel, and ammunition storage, and underground bomb shelters. Build ship docks, seawalls, ship repair, submarine overhaul, and aircraft repair facilities. Install a radar system at NAS Guam. Have spare parts for submarines and a significant number of torpedo's stored.

1 construction company with equipment

30 anti-aircraft guns with cement and sandbag walls for protection and camouflage.

150 P-51's

30 SBD dive bombers

30 TBF

USS Arizona battleship

USS Nevada battleship

USS Long Island, escort carrier with 31 F4 fighters

6 cruisers

30 Gato Class submarines

20 destroyers with radar

10 PT boats

2 LST

2 LCT

PBY aircraft as necessary



Midway:
Build underground command, fuel, and ammunition/bomb storage.

100 P-51 fighters

20 SBD dive bombers

20 TBF torpedo bombers

10 Gato Class submarines

2 cruisers

10 destroyers with radar

10 PT boats

PBY aircraft as necessary



Wake:
Build underground command, fuel, and ammunition/bomb storage.

50 F4 fighters from the carriers when they are replaced by P-38's

30 SBD dive bombers

30 TBF torpedo bombers

4 Gato Class submarines

6 destroyers with radar

6 PT boats

PBY aircraft as necessary



US Marine Corp
Retire the F2 Brewster Buffalo fighter from active service as soon as possible. Use as decoys at Kaneohe.

Accept 69 P-38's from the US Army Air Corp and procure another 250 P-38's.

Improve the amphibious assault vehicle by adding two fully armored gun turrets.

Train Marine infantry units to call in close air support from Marine, Navy, and Army Air Corp fighter aircraft. Standardize the terminology between all three services. In wartime try to always have fighter aircraft ready to provide close air support.

Build protected cement or sand bag walls, or other heavy material, around all anti-aircraft gun positions.

Heavily reinforce the following islands with at least the numbers and equipment designated below:

MCAS Guam:
As quickly as possible have the Navy Seabees build a marine base with three runways, underground bomb shelters, command bunkers, fuel, and ammunition/weapons storage. Build significant base facilities to support more than 4,000 troops. Install a radar system.

3,000 Marines

64 M4 Sherman tanks with 90mm guns

32 amphibious assault vehicles

150 P-38's

4 155mm artillery

4 four tube mortar teams

30 anti-aircraft guns



Midway:
6 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns



Wake:
30 P-38's

6 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns



Kaneohe:
6,000 Marines

100 P-38's

32 M4 Sherman tanks

30 anti-aircraft guns

Okay:
1) You don't have any P-51's so you'll have to use Vanguards instead. Put the 2 stage engine in it. That becomes your medium-high level interceptor.
2) Equip your A-20's with torpedoes, it became the Soviets favourite torpedo bomber.
3) More B-25's. It was the Soviets favourite strategic bomber.
4) Remove half the wing guns, maybe all, from the P-39, reduce the armour. Use them as your low-medium level point defence interceptor across the Pacific. The P-40 becomes your air superiority fighter.
5) The aircraft with turbos can come later.
6) Scuttle your old WW1 battleships in shallow waters to provide shore defence and AA guns in the Philippines, Guam, Wake, Midway, Samoa. Its notoriously difficult to sink a battleship that's already been sunk. That's the lesson the Germans learnt at Leningrad.

 

[SaparotRob]

It's "Sargent FURY and His Howling Commandos". Boy that made me mad!

 

[pbehn]

But unfortunately, the mod and admin staff has to keep civility amongst the forum members. Otherwise it becomes complete chaos. He was incapable of civility or humility.

It was his complete contempt for the people at the time that took my breath away. All playing golf or being useless at everything. No US (or allied) bomber could hit anything so cancel them all and build one that flies higher and faster? Its an insult to everyone involved at the time. All the aviation industry of the allies produced on airframe and one engine that could do what was needed in 1943/4 from a standing start it was developed and produced in numbers despite the engine and airframe coming from different countries. To do that in 3 years is a staggering achievement, even if they did forget the tail hook.

 

[Peter Gunn]

Darn, late to the party again, I miss all the fun.

Although I must admit, I would have liked to see how he was going to explain how to get an engine/aircraft factory up and running in two weeks.

 

[pbehn]

Darn, late to the party again, I miss all the fun.

Although I must admit, I would have liked to see how he was going to explain how to get an engine/aircraft factory up and running in two weeks.

You can do that easily, just stop playing golf (or no more than 9 holes).

 

[swampyankee]

Darn, late to the party again, I miss all the fun.

Although I must admit, I would have liked to see how he was going to explain how to get an engine/aircraft factory up and running in two weeks.

Magic?

He did say butt-kicking was involved. Of course, generals and admirals delegate all butt-kicking to NCOs, who are without peer in the role. On the other hand, engineers (and STEM professionals, in general) are masters at being passive-aggressive. Some of the shenanigans that the scientists on the Manhattan Project performed had Leslie Groves rethinking his career choices.

Even Stalin, with the threat of the Gulag, had trouble forcing projects to go faster than resources allowed.

 

[pbehn]

Even Stalin, with the threat of the Gulag, had trouble forcing projects to go faster than resources allowed.

How was Stalin on golf?

 

[swampyankee]

How was Stalin on golf?

Bourgeois waste of time only indulged in by counter-revolutionaries. Interestingly, Hitler had much the same opinion except he felt it was a waste of time only indulged in by bolsheviks.

 

[rochie]

Dont know why he wanted to waste time on the P-51 when he could've just told the Admirals and Generals to get their arses in gear and design the F-4 Phantom !

 

[pbehn]

Dont know why he wanted to waste time on the P-51 when he could've just told the Admirals and Generals to get their arses in gear and design the F-4 Phantom !

If they worked the weekends it could have been done