How to pull off Para drop at Falklands

[Admiral Beez]

If the British had 72 hours notice of the Argentine invasion could a force of Paras be dropped? Challenges are that the Brits have no heavy lift transports and their medium lift Hercules are not equipped for inflight refueling. My thinking is the Brits needs to borrow a C-5 Galaxy from the USAF (if there's one local) or re-acquire the recently sold Short Belfast for a one-way forced landing.

 

[SaparotRob]

If the British had 72 hours notice of the Argentine invasion could a force of Paras be dropped? Challenges are that the Brits have no heavy lift transports and their medium lift Hercules are not equipped for inflight refueling, and they're too slow to get there in time. My thinking is the Brits needs to borrow a C-5 Galaxy from the USAF (if there's one local) or re-acquire the recently sold Short Belfast for a one-way forced landing.

Capitalism is a remarkable system. If I had the bucks and a brigade or two ready with 72 hours notice, I'm sure there were plenty of air transport available. Especially as a government could high speed rubber stamp the paperwork (or lose it).

 

[The Basket]

That's some swag you got there.

Ask General Pinochet for help. Did Chile have C-130? Could they range out to the Falklands?

Use a civilian flight to get to Santiago. Anything which can't be flown on a civilian flight can be taken from the Chilean army.

Take the C-130 and land at Port Stanley

Does that work?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

That's some swag you got there.

Ask General Pinochet for help. Did Chile have C-130? Could they range out to the Falklands?

Use a civilian flight to get to Santiago. Anything which can't be flown on a civilian flight can be taken from the Chilean army.

Take the C-130 and land at Port Stanley

Does that work?

Yes, they did have 130s. Don't know if they could reach the islands, and I'm skeptical Chile would want to get involved in that war in any event.

At the time the RAF had about 30 Hercs in service which had refueling capabilities, which would be needed for any airdrops. I think it was 5 battalions used in that war that were airborne-capable, so any use of paras/Commandos would have to be done with a shuttle from Ascension. It could be done but I don't know if it could be done in 72 hours.

 

[GrauGeist]

Trying to allocate a C-5, get the crew briefed, have it load and on site would require quite an effort.

Also, having a USAF aircraft getting involved in that situation would be a diplomatic can of worms...

 

[EwenS]

Yes, they did have 130s. Don't know if they could reach the islands, and I'm skeptical Chile would want to get involved in that war in any event.

At the time the RAF had about 30 Hercs in service which had refueling capabilities, which would be needed for any airdrops. I think it was 5 battalions used in that war that were airborne-capable, so any use of paras/Commandos would have to be done with a shuttle from Ascension. It could be done but I don't know if it could be done in 72 hours.

Work to fit refuelling probes to the RAF Hercules only began after the outbreak of the Falklands War with the first succesful contact with a Victor tanker taking place on 3 May 1982 and the first operational sortie on 16 May. The programme to refit the C.1 fleet was not completed until after the war was over.

6 C.1 were also with HDUs as tankers but the first of those did not fly until July 1982.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Work to fit refuelling probes to the RAF Hercules only began after the outbreak of the Falklands War with the first succesful contact with a Victor tanker taking place on 3 May 1982 and the first operational sortie on 16 May. The programme to refit the C.1 fleet was not completed until after the war was over.

6 C.1 were also with HDUs as tankers but the first of those did not fly until July 1982.

I had thought that upgrading had started in the late 70s. Thanks for the correction.

 

[EwenS]

I had thought that upgrading had started in the late 70s. Thanks for the correction.

In 1978 a programme began to stretch 30 of the RAF Hercules fleet from C.1 to C.3 configuration. They were then probed later on in the 1980s.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

In 1978 a programme began to stretch 30 of the RAF Hercules fleet from C.1 to C.3 configuration. They were then probed later on in the 1980s.

Therein lies my confusion -- thanks again. Remember, lads, don't grow old!

 

[SaparotRob]

Bletchley Park 2.0 as given us 72 hours. What's (if anything) is at Ascension Island? Can some of that be shuttled to the Falklands? Replace those guys with some troops from the "cavalry". What situation? No war yet. We got 72 hours. Perhaps a friendly request from one friendly nation to another. You guys would know U.S. airlift capability better than I. How was the airline industry doing at the time? I'm guessing there were a few empty civilian heavies around the U.K.

Here's the thing; once stuff starts heading to the Falklands, with a new company or two already reinforcing and a task force enroute, how eager will Argentina be to carry through?
You'll be tipping off the Argentinians that there's a security leak.

 

[SaparotRob]

Therein lies my confusion -- thanks again. Remember, lads, don't grow old!

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Growing old is mandatory. Growing up is optional.

Well, the alternative of not growing old can have a scary aspect to it too.

 

[SaparotRob]

Amen, Brother!

 

[Admiral Beez]

That's some swag you got there. Ask General Pinochet for help. Did Chile have C-130? Could they range out to the Falklands? Use a civilian flight to get to Santiago. Anything which can't be flown on a civilian flight can be taken from the Chilean army. Take the C-130 and land at Port Stanley. Does that work?

I like that.

• 72:00 hours - Maggie and the Chiefs get the word of the imminent invasion. Six hours of chatter, including calls to Chile and to British Airways to secure and fuel a 747. Alert sent to Governor Rex Hunt to prepare for the landings and to recall the 22 Marines sent to South Georgia.
• 66:00 hours - Chile agrees to the BA flight, but wants time to consider whilst enroute. BA agrees, begins to fuel and prepare a 747. Alert goes out to Parachute Regiment (and six RAF transport command aircrew) to kit up and meet at closest 747-capable airport/base in 6 hours
• 60:00 hours - 400 Paras arrive at airbase, load munitions and kit, etc.
• 58:00 hours - Boeing 747 takes off for 15 hour flight from UK to Santiago. During these 15 hours Maggie and the British ambassador push Chile to agree to sell/borrow two C-130s or other aircraft for a one way trip to Stanley field. Chile agrees, paints over national markings on two C130s, sends them to Santiago.
• 43:00 hours - Boeing 747 lands at Santiago, Paras take two hours to unload and transfer to two private C130s for three hour flight to the airbase at Ibáñez del Campo.
• 38:00 hours - C130s arrive at Ibáñez del Campo, refuel. Chileans pilots depart, handing over to RAF pilots. One hour for refuel and checks. Two hour flight to Stanley
• 35:00 hours - Two C130s arrive with 400 Paras, boosting the Falklands garrison to 400 Army, 79 RMs and six RAF aircrew. The C130s are painted with RAF roundels.
• 30:00 hours - Chilean and British media broadcast footage of the garrison. Word gets to the Argentine commanders waiting to depart with their invasion vessels.
• 30:05 hours - Maggie phones up Galtieri and tells him that she knows what he's about, that her boys are now in force and will kill any Argies that land

Looks like we can do the above with about 30 hours to spare. Even if I'm ignorantly optimistic I'd think getting the Paras onto the ground within 72 hours notice is doable. But are 400 lightly armed Paras going to deter the Argentines? At best beyond their rifles and grenades they've brought a few LMGs and Carl Gustavs.

 

[The Basket]

I said a civilian aircraft would land in Santiago, Chile.
I said Chilean C-130 would be used to transport men to Port Stanley.

At no point did I say Chile was involved.

 

[EwenS]

The C-130E/H (not sure which version the Chileans had) only had a capacity for 92 troops (64 paras). So you are going in with less than half you are planning.

Politically I'm not sure the Chileans would agree to be so openly involved (where else can a Herc come from?). Historically, while they helped us, everything that happened in Chile had to be kept very hush hush. Use of Hercs this way seems a bit too overt to me.

 

[SaparotRob]

If there are fresh boots on the ground and more inbound on a better equipped and trained navy, don't think anymore would have been needed.
That alone would have shaken Galtieri.

 

[The Basket]

The C-130E/H (not sure which version the Chileans had) only had a capacity for 92 troops (64 paras). So you are going in with less than half you are planning.

Politically I'm not sure the Chileans would agree to be so openly involved (where else can a Herc come from?). Historically, while they helped us, everything that happened in Chile had to be kept very hush hush. Use of Hercs this way seems a bit too overt to me.

Shangri-la

 

[Frog]

If the British had 72 hours notice of the Argentine invasion could a force of Paras be dropped? Challenges are that the Brits have no heavy lift transports and their medium lift Hercules are not equipped for inflight refueling. My thinking is the Brits needs to borrow a C-5 Galaxy from the USAF (if there's one local) or re-acquire the recently sold Short Belfast for a one-way forced landing.

They call the French to borrow an A400...

 

[The Basket]

Technical point of order. If war starts in 72 hours then doing something now is not war. So the Chilean is just charter flights to some place. So no big deal. If a Chilean Herc overflys says Port Stanley on a training flight then I am sure these things happen. Just coincidence.