I need help/sources for the 2 cm M-Gesch. X m. Zerl!

[ThatZenoGuy]

This elusive round is something I am interested in, and I need anything and everything about it!

Mostly I need some sort of source of evidence that it was indeed used in combat!

 

[fubar57]

This site has a PDF but you'll need a translator...VETERAN ARMY CZ

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

This site has a PDF but you'll need a translator...VETERAN ARMY CZ

View attachment 527791​

Thank you for the reply!

I'm afraid I have translated and seen all four of those links. They show the round was listed in the official handbook for german plane ammo, but not where, why, and how.

 

[Greyman]

Do you mean specifically the time-fused version? Or the Minengeschoss shell in general?

Both were listed in German documents detailing what ammunition proportions to use for different types of missions. (mit Zerl. for air to air, ohne Zerl. for air to ground).

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Do you mean specifically the time-fused version? Or the Minengeschoss shell in general?

Both were listed in German documents detailing what ammunition proportions to use for different types of missions. (mit Zerl. for air to air, ohne Zerl. for air to ground).

I am talking about the "XM" "MX" or otherwise "X" mineshell. The enlarged one with 25 grams of HA41 filling.

 

[Greyman]

All I can find at the moment is:

the sheet for the shell in a 1945 Luftwaffe ordnance catalog has "Ausgabe 9.43" at the bottom

and 'German Development of Ammunition for Aircraft Cannon' by Flieger Oberstabsingenieur Dr. Herman Franz (written 22 Nov 1945) has a quick mention when discussing the requirement for destroying enemy aircraft with a minimum of strikes;

"As a result of all considerations the following were adopted for use against fighter or bomber:-

for 2 cm. guns​

2 cm. M and MX shell.​

2 cm. Brandgranate 44"​

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

All I can find at the moment is:

the sheet for the shell in a 1945 Luftwaffe ordnance catalog has "Ausgabe 9.43" at the bottom

and 'German Development of Ammunition for Aircraft Cannon' by Flieger Oberstabsingenieur Dr. Herman Franz (written 22 Nov 1945) has a quick mention when discussing the requirement for destroying enemy aircraft with a minimum of strikes;

"As a result of all considerations the following were adopted for use against fighter or bomber:-

for 2 cm. guns​

2 cm. M and MX shell.​

2 cm. Brandgranate 44"​

Yes! Yes!

This is what I need!

But can I get a PDF? A picture? Something physical, more or less! ;D

 

[Greyman]

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

View attachment 527793

I am afraid I have that already, sorry! They did not accept that as enough proof it was used.

 

[Snautzer01]

For what gun was it intended?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

For what gun was it intended?

The MG-151 (20mm)

 

[Snautzer01]

D.(Luft)T.6151 MG151 und MG151 1942

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

D.(Luft)T.6151 MG151 und MG151 1942

View attachment 527796View attachment 527797

I am afraid that is not entirely useful. The MX round was 1943 or 1944 onwards.

 

[Snautzer01]

i know. Search not for the ammo but the gun. Should be a manual of later date around.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

i know. Search not for the ammo but the gun. Should be a manual of later date around.

Do you have any? I would love to see any!

 

[Snautzer01]

If not made later the ammo was not used. Germans had lots of weapons proposed that stayed on the drawing board. That's why i would search for the gun manual of a later date.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

If not made later the ammo was not used. Germans had lots of weapons proposed that stayed on the drawing board. That's why i would search for the gun manual of a later date.

Finding such a manual is the problem. Additionally the round is listed in some places, which prototype/nonused ammo are NOT listed.

Many sources also list a 'mine shell with 25grams of filler'.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I cannot find the 1943/44/45 manuals...

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I FOUND.

CONCRETE EVIDENCE.

Wayback Machine

 

[GrauGeist]

There is a thread here on the forum that discusses Luftwaffe weapons with detail.

Luftwaffe Cannons and Machineguns topic.