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Single engine fighter-wise I don't think there is anything to do differently than the LW did historically. The FW190 was perfect for its time, the only thing one could hope for would be less engine issues with the BMW 801. Once the war was on its hard to just phase out the Me109, especially when the 209 and 309 were failures. I would say start working on the Ta-152 with DB603 in 1941 though, rather than 1943 and waiting for the Jumo 213 and detouring into the Fw190C/D.What about fighters? The Bf-109 will be the standard issue. By the time it acquires a 1000+ HP engine install the drop tank facility, maybe reinforce the horizontal stabilator, so the struts can be eliminated; install retractable tail wheel? Should boost range and speed.
When to introduce 'another iron in the fire', what to expect from that one?
Quality is one issue, but my opinion is that German aircraft quality was pretty good throughout the war. They might have done better, but this was not the primary problem for the LW
LWs main problems early in the war were
1) Shortages in production
2) Over-emphasis on whole airframe production, not enough effort on replacement engines
3) Insufficient effort on the pilot replacement programs....as the war progressed German pilots became less and less well trained
4) Linked to the above a shortage of training aircraft
If the luftwaffe could overcome its logistic issues, it would have won the BoB and would not have been bled white in its other campaigns. this was not a function, or a result of poor aircraft designs. it was a function of a generally poor support element. If the numbers had been there, the quality issue would not have mattered
These are precisely the kind of problems I was referring to as a lack of strategic planning.
I'm surprised that a drop tank wasn't introduced for the Bf 109 earlier. The first drop tank equipped Bf 109 to appear in a British CEAR was White 11, WNr. 4900, a Bf 109E-1 flown by Fw.H.Schmidt of 6./JG 53 which force-landed at Wheelstead Farm, Old Romney on 30 November 1940.
You could say the same thing about the adoption of drop tanks by the US 8th AF escort fighters too. As I said before all sides made what, in retrospect, were easily fixable mistakes.
None of this has anything to do with the aeroplanes developed from 1936 until the beginning of the war.
Cheers
Steve
English is not my 1st laguage. I've read the sentence that begins as 'by 1939' as 'at start of 1939'. I'd welcome a clarification.
The Ju-87B in was exceptional aircraft if the opponent does not have a capable defense - it's by no means a perfect aircraft. The Do-17 and He-111 were about as good, or just slightly better than many other similar bombers - Wellington, Hampden, Whitley, SB-2, DB-3, SM-79, Fiat BR.20, CANT Z.1011 and 1007, Martin B-10 and 167, PZL.37. Ju-52 was as good as DC-3 or HP Harrow.
So I will say that German A/C were as capable as what the rest of industrialized world was fielding. It were other factors, listed in above post, that made LW superior from 1939-42 (bar RAF).
3) Insufficient effort on the pilot replacement programs....as the war progressed German pilots became less and less well trained
4) Linked to the above a shortage of training aircraft
Part of the problem was not having a good design in service; the plywood version was defective and the early aluminum version wasn't without issues. The aluminum option was costly in terms of aluminum, which Germany may or may not have been able to afford; having the Fw187 in service though reduces or eliminates that need to have drop tanks in service for the Me109. Drop tanks too do not solve the serious historical issue of too few fighter pilots, which resulted in a surplus of fighters to operational pilots during the BoB! Then we get into fuel issues for training and how the lack of having good staff planning from 1936 on really screwed things up (aka keep Walter Wever alive and a lot of these issues never appear).
Single engine fighter-wise I don't think there is anything to do differently than the LW did historically. The FW190 was perfect for its time, the only thing one could hope for would be less engine issues with the BMW 801. Once the war was on its hard to just phase out the Me109, especially when the 209 and 309 were failures. I would say start working on the Ta-152 with DB603 in 1941 though, rather than 1943 and waiting for the Jumo 213 and detouring into the Fw190C/D.
Other than that the Me262 is very much were they should go with jets and avoid all the rocket detours and other jet designs.
In terms of two engine aircraft, I'm in favor of the Bf110 as a gunship/ground attack/fight-bomber. Beyond that the Fw187 is a necessity for long range escort/air superiority fighter. Working on the Me210 is worthwhile without the dive bombing requirement, provided it is understood that it isn't necessary if it doesn't work out in testing. The Do335 is worthwhile for a back up.
As far as nightfighters the Ju88C/G is the only way to go for me, though having the Bf110 as a stopgap along with the Do215 makes sense in production terms. Don't bother with the He219 IMHO. A nightfighter Me262 is a viable research path too, as is the do335. But enhancing the Ju88 into better and better nightfighters until the jet age makes total sense.
Agreed.As an airframe (ie. we will forget about the engines for a brief moment), the Fw-190 was offering several things superior to the Bf-109:
-somewhat a bigger wing that, combined with a more generous fuselage volume, allowed for more armament, ammo fuel
-wide set, inward retracting U/C
-far better field of vision
-far better rate of roll, much due to stiff wing with two main spars, span-vise reinforcements and big ailerons
-covered main U/C and retractable tailwheel, for better streamlining
The BMW139 was not viable AFAIK; it needed to be revised into the 801 due to experience merged in from Bramo. Merge the two radial engine companies sooner and start the 14 cylinder radial sooner and we are all set, but using the early development apparently was not a viable option.So indeed, too good a fighter to pass on. Would it be possible to introduce it earlier, say, just for the BoB? The BMW 139 was offering excellent power (Short-term power (5 min): 1410 HP at 4500 m altitude
Increased short-term power (30 min): 1270 HP at 4900 m altitude, via HoHun), but the reliability was not that good. Maybe install the DB-601A as power egg, so the radial engine can be installed without much of problems? In case the Jumo-211B is rated for 5 min power (ie. comparable with DB-601A), we might use those power eggs instead of DB-601As. The inter-cooled Jumo-211J with C3 fuel for 1941, in case radial is still running late?
I'd have it with 2 weapon stations per each of two wing halves, each station holding either 2 LMGs, or one cannon. Preferably total of 8 MG-15s, each with ~500 rounds for BoB.
From 1941-42, in 'my Luftwaffe', the engine would be either 14 cyl radial, from 1942-43 the 2-stage DB-601 or Jumo 211. Ie. no DB 603 or Jumo 213.
Sure, but there was never any single engine powerful enough to make this work. Post-war it would be fine, but given the technical constraints up to 1945-46 its just not viable; have it be backburner research for 1946.One might want the single engined jet, too, so the piston jobs can be replaced quickly.
Push pull had too long of a lead time to be ready by 1944; it would have to start development in the mid-1930s. If there was enough foresight, having jumo of db powered push-pull fighters would have been indeed awesome by 1942-43. The problem is starting the research early enough. A smaller Do-335 in 1942-43 would have been ideal IMHO.The Fw-187 should come in handy, until it's replaced with 2-stage Fw-190s. The push-pull fighter might be a good alternative, the design need to be started ASAP, so even on two DB-601s or Jumo 211s the aircraft can perform. With those two and Ju-88, there should not be need for Bf-110, Mtt can concentrate on 109 and jet(s).
Sure, but the development of the push-pull meant it wasn't ready until late 1944, which is too late.Agreed that Ju-88 should get the priority. Maybe trying also the push-pull fighter as a NF?
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The BMW139 was not viable AFAIK; it needed to be revised into the 801 due to experience merged in from Bramo. Merge the two radial engine companies sooner and start the 14 cylinder radial sooner and we are all set, but using the early development apparently was not a viable option.
As to using an liquid cooled inline, there was a lack of DBs and a lack of Jumo performance at altitude where the fighters were needing it. A jumo powered fighter would be stuck well below 20,000 feet. Increase DB production early on with greater investment in its production and a FW190 powered DB601 is potentially viable, but is there a guarantee that it would perform as well as the radial engine design? The smaller width changes the design, as did the long nose C and D series, which changed its flight characteristics that made it so memorable in the A-series. You can't power-egg a single engine fighter with fuselage based engine, you need a new fuselage otherwise you gain unnecessary drag and weight by having to brace the smaller liquid cooled inlines in a wider radial designed airframe.
Sure, but there was never any single engine powerful enough to make this work. Post-war it would be fine, but given the technical constraints up to 1945-46 its just not viable; have it be backburner research for 1946.
Push pull had too long of a lead time to be ready by 1944; it would have to start development in the mid-1930s. If there was enough foresight, having jumo of db powered push-pull fighters would have been indeed awesome by 1942-43. The problem is starting the research early enough. A smaller Do-335 in 1942-43 would have been ideal IMHO.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335
The project didn't really start until 1939 and it took serious development before the Do-335 could even be contemplated in 1942 when the design started. I looked into the pre-official project and it wasn't able to be moved up without starting push-pull fighter research in 1935/36.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göppingen_Gö_9
Even having the concept research start in 1937 wasn't enough; I don't buy the complaint that Goering cancelled research in 1940, as the Go-9 flew in 1941 after the supposed cancel order.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Do_335
You'd have to start in 1935 with the Go-9 to get something like that ready by 1942 in combat. As to the Fw187 I think it has viability until about 1943; at that point there are too many other more viable options (not the Me210/410). Then its all about the Ta-152 IMHO.
Sure, but the development of the push-pull meant it wasn't ready until late 1944, which is too late.
It was a back up in case jet research didn't produce an operational aircraft by the end of the war, then it was just another 'let's throw what we've got at the enemy' situation in desperation in late 1944.Just trying to head off another contributor.
I am totally baffled as to why the Do 335 is repeatedly held up as the solution to Germany's high speed piston engine aircraft needs in near the end of the war. It may have been fast but it seems to have a lot of other things going against. More of a "solution"
in search of a problem than the answer to a real question.
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The idea was there but please point out the number of aircraft that have used the idea since the end of WW II in any numbers?
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No one was claiming it was a German invention or unique to the 1930s. The problem was creating a high performance push-pull fighter/fast bomber/night fighter with high output engines before late 1944. It was a hard development that took time.
The DO-16 and Do-18 make together 420 pieces. Not overwhelming a number, but that was between the wars.
Quirk is that one don't need high output engines in order to extract high performance out of push pull aircraft. One can have decent speed even with Jumo 211s on board.
Apparently there was a lot of issues that had to be worked out to get performance that would actually make the project worthwhile; just having a marginal edge over the traditional twin engine fighters isn't worth the problems that come with a push-pull design on a fighter (on a bomber its a different story).
they also need to work on an ejection seat otherwise the pilot could not bail out at all in case of emergency lest he get chopped up by his rear prop.
It was thought at the time that an ejection seat and the removal of the rear propeller and part of the tail assembly was needed to enable a pilot to bail out. It wasn't so, of the handful of pilots who did abandon a Do 335 at least one made a completely 'normal' exit from an intact aircraft after both the tail jettison and ejection seat had failed.
The ejection seat was dangerous, one pilot made a wheels up landing after the seat failed to operate following a fire on a test flight, only to have it work as he touched down, throwing him from the aircraft and depositing him on the runway. A more serious, and fatal in at least one instance, problem was the propensity for the jettisoned hood to strike the pilots head, rendering him unconscious or even killing him.
The Do 335 wasn't seen as the solution, just a solution and an aircraft capable of many roles. Just look at the size of the thing
Cheers
Steve