Identification of Blenheim wreckage

[MiTasol]

There is a photo of a crashed Blenheim here https://ibccdigitalarchive.lincoln.ac.uk/omeka/files/original/2672/47691/PGouldS19060006.2.jpg

Can anyone identify the exact aircraft etc from the squadron markings?

 

[Wurger]

The markings fit the Blenheim Mk I of the 44 Squadron. The unit code is the pre-war type one.

The possible kite could be:

K7078 abandoned after control of the aircraft, lost on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington crashed near Blue Bell Inn, Tattershall Thorpe, Lincolnshire.
K7134 under carriage retracted by mistake after landing on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7127 suffered engine failure on take-off and swung on 22nd April 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7128 under carriage raised by mistake, during the landing on 12th May 1938, RAF Waddington.
L1199 crashed on landing on 24th January 1939, RAF Waddington.
K7138 suffered engine failure on approach, causing the wing to hit the ground and the aircraft cart wheeled on 30th January, RAF Waddington.
L1155 suffered engine failure on take-off and stalled on 15th February, RAF North Coates

1930's Lincolnshire aviation Incident Logs - BCAR.org.uk

 

[fubar57]

Imma say L1155, North Coates is in Lincolnshire, surprised someone walking away from that aircraft. Just a guess

 

[MiTasol]

The markings fit the Blenheim Mk I of the 44 Squadron. The unit code is the pre-war type one.

The possible kite could be:

K7078 abandoned after control of the aircraft, lost on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington crashed near Blue Bell Inn, Tattershall Thorpe, Lincolnshire.
K7134 under carriage retracted by mistake after landing on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7127 suffered engine failure on take-off and swung on 22nd April 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7128 under carriage raised by mistake, during the landing on 12th May 1938, RAF Waddington.
L1199 crashed on landing on 24th January 1939, RAF Waddington.
K7138 suffered engine failure on approach, causing the wing to hit the ground and the aircraft cart wheeled on 30th January, RAF Waddington.
L1155 suffered engine failure on take-off and stalled on 15th February, RAF North Coates

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1930's Lincolnshire aviation Incident Logs - BCAR.org.uk

Thanks https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/members/wurger.1418/

I would edit that down to remove

K7078 as it crashed away from base​

K7134 and K7128 as the landing gear is clearly down and locked in the photo.​

and I doubt it is K7138 as cartwheeled infers that the tail would be damaged​

That narrows it down to three

K7078 abandoned after control of the aircraft, lost on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington crashed near Blue Bell Inn, Tattershall Thorpe, Lincolnshire.
K7134 under carriage retracted by mistake after landing on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7127 suffered engine failure on take-off and swung on 22nd April 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7128 under carriage raised by mistake, during the landing on 12th May 1938, RAF Waddington.
L1199 crashed on landing on 24th January 1939, RAF Waddington.
K7138 suffered engine failure on approach, causing the wing to hit the ground and the aircraft cart wheeled on 30th January, RAF Waddington.
L1155 suffered engine failure on take-off and stalled on 15th February, RAF North Coates​

fubar57 I cannot see anyone surviving that but miracles do occur.

 

[AL90]

44 Sqn Operational Record Book is a bit sparse:
Only K7078, K7127 & L1115 are mentioned, the others were probably more minor accidents.

I'd opt for L1115 as the damage is more consistent with a stall

 

[MiTasol]

I agree.

It is interesting that fubar57 's report shows 3POB with 1 survivor and AL90 's report shows only the pilot. I am guessing that the other two POB were not mentioned as they were not members of 44 sqdn.

I wonder if there are any photos of North Coates airfield from that period showing that hangar and outbuildings as that would confirm it.

I wonder what 1 A.G.S. records remain of the accident.

 

[MiTasol]

From another source

When war clouds started to loom, the too easy to read sqn codes were replaced by a two letter code. 44 sqn carried "JW" from Oct 1938 till Sep 1939. They flew the Blenheim I from Dec 1937 to Feb 1939 when they converted onto the HP Hampden.

I would have expected all the aircraft to have been repainted well before Feb 39 when L1155 crashed so for a short time I believed we were looking at an earlier accident. I expected it would have only taken a few weeks to respray the 44 on each aircraft to read JW on all aircraft in the unit so I thought that would make the accident pre December at the latest.

Following the link that https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/members/wurger.1418/ supplied I then suspected that it was this aircraft.

Wurgers summary left off the 1 killed so had previously dismissed that one as just a serious ground loop. The Squadron Record book page that AL90 posted shows that the pilot survived.

That does not seem possible from the photo and the wreckage in the photo is consistent with a stall and totally inconsistent with a catastrophic ground loop.

I doubt it is L1199 which crashed on landing on 24th January 1939, RAF Waddington even if it stalled on approach because it is too close to the boundary hedge and all the airport is behind it, not in front of it.

 

[MiTasol]

I tracked this item down on L1159 and this suggests that the aircraft crashed off airport and did have a JW squadron code. The article includes a photo of the survivor and his brief history.

44 Squadron Blenheim I LII55 Fl/Lt. Withy, North Coates, Accident

Personal history of Allied forces aircrew and support services serving 1935 - 1945 including original research.

aircrewremembered.com

The wreckage suggests that the right wing contacted the ground first and that part is more consistent with a ground loop but, unless the rear fuselage was bought over to the rest of the wreckage before the photo was taken the rest of the wreckage says stalled in.

 

[PETERTHEEATER]

The C Type hangar seen in the top LH corner of the photo suggests Waddington since North Coates did not have C Types.

 

[MiTasol]

Thank you sir

That definitely eliminates L1155 then so we are now down to two aircraft, K7127 and L1199. Given squadron codes changed to JW in Oct 38 I am inclined to believe it is K7127. Not a certainty by any means but...

Maybe excessive use of brakes seeing that rock wall coming up fast.

K7078 abandoned after control of the aircraft, lost on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington crashed near Blue Bell Inn, Tattershall Thorpe, Lincolnshire.
K7134 under carriage retracted by mistake after landing on 27th January 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7127 suffered engine failure on take-off and swung on 22nd April 1938, RAF Waddington.
K7128 under carriage raised by mistake, during the landing on 12th May 1938, RAF Waddington.
L1199 crashed on landing on 24th January 1939, RAF Waddington.
K7138 suffered engine failure on approach, causing the wing to hit the ground and the aircraft cart wheeled on 30th January, RAF Waddington.
L1155 suffered engine failure on take-off and stalled on 15th February, RAF North Coates

If only there was a list somewhere of what individual letters those two aircraft wore. The squadron codes of many RAAF aircraft still exist but the RAF was a far bigger organisation and I know of no such RAF records.

Hopefully someone will have such a list or have a photo of H with its serial recorded. I have done a search of online photos and found none unfortunately but then again there are many internet repositories of photos and who knows what is out there.

 

[MiTasol]

Just looked at Accident Bristol Blenheim Mk I L1199, Tuesday 24 January 1939 to see what history they had on both aircraft. According to them Blenheim L1199: Written off (damaged beyond repair) 24/01/1939 when hit ridge on take-off from RAF Waddington, Lincolnshire & aircraft landed with undercarriage partly retracted. Relegated to GIA (Ground Instructional Airframe) 1342M

Given the undercarriage is clearly locked down in the wreck and that wreck is not suitable for an instructional aircraft that pretty much locks in K7127. How anyone survived is beyond me.

The ASN report on K7127 is below.