IFF lights: F4F-4?

[johnny1000]

Hello

I'm looking for an image of the IFF lights on an F4F-4. I've scoured the web and various reference books (Detail in Scale, Squadron/Signal Walk Around) and can't find anything.

Did that aircraft even have them, and if so, where would they be located?

Thanks!
-J

 

[daveT]

The F4F had wing tip lights and that is all.

 

[johnny1000]

That's what I suspected... Thank you so much!

 

[CATCH 22]

Hello

I'm looking for an image of the IFF lights on an F4F-4. I've scoured the web and various reference books (Detail in Scale, Squadron/Signal Walk Around) and can't find anything.

Did that aircraft even have them, and if so, where would they be located?

Thanks!
-J

The 3 identification lights (red, green, amber) on F4F were located under the belly. IN D&S, page 47 you see them on a FM-2. On some variants they are not visible, on some of the restored airplanes they are clearly there. My guess is they were not used on all a/cs and were faired over. A good photo of covered lights is the Palm Springs F4F-3:

Clearly visible the circular fairings below:

This is the F4F-4 in San Diego - the 3 fairings are also visible.

And here they are not covered, but maybe overpainted?

The wingtip lights are the navigation lights and on top of each wing there is a formation light too.

 

[chuter]

The nav tail light is on the end of the tail cone (just below the rudder) above the tail hook.

 

[Wurger]

I agree. These lights can be noticed on the FM-2 kites mostly. While in pics of the F4F-4s and British Martlets these it can't be seen.
Here is a pic and its enlarged part with these lights seen. Believing the caption it's a F4F but not sure though.

However the shot below presents Wildcat fuselages gathered in Grumman factory without these lights attached. So I agree these weren't the rule for all F4F-4 fighters. Attaching of the lights might have depended on a factory or being a field modification. The FM-1/2 planes were assembled by the Eastern Aircraft Division of the General Motors Company in Linden ( New York) but not by the Grumman factory.

 

[CATCH 22]

I agree. These lights can be noticed on the FM-2 kites mostly. While in pics of the F4F-4s and British Martlets these it can't be seen.

It's hard to find authentic photos from the period clearly showing the belly of the plane. Many restored a/cs are accessible and can be seen from below. This is a restored F4F-3 and the identification lights are there.

 

[Wurger]

Yep. Also I have seen a pic of the FM-2 kite without the lights at the belly. Therefore I would say it wasn't the factory equipment attached to all planes. Even if these weren't mounted but there would be the holes with blinds and these should be noticed too.

Here acouple of images I found via the net...

A FM-2 of training unit ...

A F4F-3A ...

A F4F-4 ...

Martlet ...

 

[CATCH 22]

Yep. Also I have seen a pic of the FM-2 kite without the lights at the belly. Therefore I would say it wasn't the factory equipment attached to all planes. Even if these weren't mounted but there would be the holes with blinds and these should be noticed too.

Wurger, IMHO the recognition lights are factory equipment, but they were not installed on all planes. It is very hard to judge about any fairings over the 3 holes, based on original photos. I have one from the war games (as shown above) with a bigger resolution but by all means I don't see any proof pro or con fairings over the lights.
It will be interesting to check a Pilot's manual or better an Erection and maintenance manual for F4F-4 (or any other model) and find the descriptions.
If you check cockpit photos of F4F the toggle switches for the recognition lights (if installed!) are on the left console, in the front corner, under the black clock/gauge:

The F4F-4 in Quantico (photo below from D&S) has this panel removed (see the big hole there), but it's not clear were the lights installed initially or not.

There is a virtual cockpit of a F4F here:
F4F Wildcat | Panoramas | Air & Space Magazine
I don't know what model it is (could be FM), but the switches for the recognition lights are there.

 

[Old Wizard]

 

[Wurger]

Wurger, IMHO the recognition lights are factory equipment, but they were not installed on all planes...

Oh.. some of misunderstanding. I agree with you entirely. By the "factory equipment" I wanted to say "not attached in a factory". To be honest I have checked on a couple of references for the plane and none of them mentioned about the lights at all.

 

[Airframes]

Good stuff.
I was rather taken aback when I saw the user name of our new member !

 

[Wurger]

Same here.

 

[fubar57]

This is from a Japanese book called Koku Fan on the F4F-4, can't vouch for it's accuracy...

​

...the plans in the Kagero and Monografie Lotnicze books do not show lights

 

[waroff]

the three downward recognition light RGA were installed on all FM2,
a additional white upward reco light was on the top side of fuselage on
airplanes SN 15952 throught 56843.

No recognition lights on the F4F

Source; EMM FM2, part catalog FM2
pilot's handbook F4F

 

[SONofSTEEL]

Yep. Also I have seen a pic of the FM-2 kite without the lights at the belly. Therefore I would say it wasn't the factory equipment attached to all planes. Even if these weren't mounted but there would be the holes with blinds and these should be noticed too.

Here acouple of images I found via the net...

A FM-2 of training unit ...

View attachment 367711

A F4F-3A ...

View attachment 367712
View attachment 367713


A F4F-4 ...

View attachment 367714
View attachment 367715

Aren't these the four-gunned FM-1's ?
Grumman ceased production in late '42 and the insignia at that time was the blue circle w white star