Inaccuracy With Stock WWII Aviation Footage...It Drives Me Crazy

[DrumBob]

Being Memorial Day, I was watching a bit of WWII documentary TV on American Heroes Channel. I was tuned into a Pearl Harbor doc and then one on the London Blitz. I was appalled at the blatant errors in the use of actual WWII footage; B-17s supposedly bombing London, Dauntlesses bombing Pearl Harbor, B-17 ball turret gunners shooting at Spitfires, Hellcats taking off from a carrier to go after the Japanese attackers at Pearl. I had to turn it off. Reruns of The Office looked a lot better.

Who are the idiots who make these inaccurate atrocities? Know-nothing morons? I know the average person watching won't notice the difference, but I do, and I'm sure everyone else here does. If Ken Burns was making these shows, he'd get it right.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Popular history often gets it wrong. "Never let the facts stand in the way of a good narrative" seems to be their adage. So, too, they don't pass up the chance to use dramatic footage, etc.

 

[yosimitesam]

There's a proven market for "war documentaries." However, budget constraints limit the amount and quality of stock footage used, i.e. many 'production companies' go cheap on stock footage and their production values are not very great to begin with. All you need is a spoken 'narrative' to overlay history, written as short and hyperbolic as possible. Spend most of the budget on editing, sound, and narration. (Somebody 'famous' to narrate is worth some coin, if you can convice the 'suits' to pay their fee.) Wrap it up and hand it off for 'rent' by anybody that wants it. "DVD it" if you think sales might be enough to cover initial run costs and not hurt the future upside. Cover costs in 1-3 years, if lucky, then pure profit. Then ....

Executive: "What's next?"
Producer: "How about one where we claim it's possible FDR knew all about Perl Harbor beforehand without actually saying so? We can get the WWII crowd and maybe a hunk of the conspiracy nerds. Cable money might be damn pretty if we add some conspiracy. What ya think?"
Executive: "How much we talkin' about?"

 

[GregP]

TV shows do the same thing. The worst was when they used to dub in engine sounds. 4-stroke motorcycles would sounds like 2-strokes, etc.

The press is REALLY stupid about aircraft, as you say. Most of what they say about aviation in general is untrue.

 

[at6]

The people producing these dumb ass "documentaries" should be taken out and pelted with their dvds plus be subjected to to one month of listening to Tiny Tim singing "tip Toe Through The Tulips" 24 hours a day.

 

[Denniss]

Seen and heard these issues in many documentaries as well.
Fake dubbed sound, Panthers rolling into France 1940 (or Soviet Union 1941), latewar Bf 109 or even Fw 190 attacking Britain in 1940.
Very often a reason I stop watching those "documentaries" if they relied upon fakes.

 

[special ed]

I was going to watch the John Wayne movie again yesterday, but had forgotten how he changed from F6F to SB2C when bombing. Switched off. My biggest gripe is the sound as a plane is shot down. The whine of the wind in the wires of a biplane while watching a "Zero" or B-17 go down is really bad.

 

[pops-paolo]

There's a proven market for "war documentaries." However, budget constraints limit the amount and quality of stock footage used, i.e. many 'production companies' go cheap on stock footage and their production values are not very great to begin with. All you need is a spoken 'narrative' to overlay history, written as short and hyperbolic as possible. Spend most of the budget on editing, sound, and narration. (Somebody 'famous' to narrate is worth some coin, if you can convice the 'suits' to pay their fee.) Wrap it up and hand it off for 'rent' by anybody that wants it. "DVD it" if you think sales might be enough to cover initial run costs and not hurt the future upside. Cover costs in 1-3 years, if lucky, then pure profit. Then ....

Executive: "What's next?"
Producer: "How about one where we claim it's possible FDR knew all about Perl Harbor beforehand without actually saying so? We can get the WWII crowd and maybe a hunk of the conspiracy nerds. Cable money might be damn pretty if we add some conspiracy. What ya think?"
Executive: "How much we talkin' about?"

next up on history channel "nazi super weapons" that would never work

 

[GrauGeist]

A large share of the goofs are because of ignorance and/or lack of research.

A plummeting airplane does not make "Stuka sounds" no matter how dramatic it seems.
Splicing stock footage is a nice shortcut and I suspect they think it looks good and the audience won't notice.

Then there's occasions where the director knows, but adds their own touch, like in the WWI movie "Flyboys" where the director insisted that all the DR.1s be red "so the audience can see the action better" - really? A DR.1 was not only unmistakable in it's appearance, but historically they each had unique and unmistakable markings. I suspect the truth was that he didn't want to pay the extra time to have each CGI aircraft rendered individually.

 

[SaparotRob]

The people producing these dumb ass "documentaries" should be taken out and pelted with their dvds plus be subjected to to one month of listening to Tiny Tim singing "tip Toe Through The Tulips" 24 hours a day.

The Constitution of the United States prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[special ed]

The text is often not checked by anyone knowledgeable (a 15 year old would know better) when it was said Betty bombers attacked Pearl Harbor. Surprisingly using footage of Bettys but over open sea.

 

[SaparotRob]

Ed Nash has a YouTube channel on aircraft. When he puts a vid with the a picture of a plane not the one he's talking about, he puts in a disclaimer. Something like "this isn't a picture of the plane but I couldn't find one. This is close."

 

[Peter Gunn]

I can understand (and forgive) using production footage that has already been released. Years ago, about 1995, I contacted the Library of Congress for some footage of U.S.S. Enterprise at I think Eastern Solomons showing her slewing left right and center dodging bombs and torpedo's. I don't remember the exact details but for what I believe I remember as a 5 minute VHS tape (it might have been 3 minutes) it was over $1,000.00 USD.

EEK!

So think of the production costs if you want new footage and you need 10 to 20 times the run time of what I was requesting.

OR

You could just look in the public domain for airplane/ship/tank whatever and use that for pennies if not free.

As for using correct footage, I reference a Tom Hanks interview where he was telling Major Winters that "Look, in the film you're going to do things you didn't do, say things you didn't say and normal projects like this get about 10% of the story correct. We're striving hard to break that and get maybe 12% correct" Not a perfect quote but the numbers are what he said. So 12% is striving hard? Easy to see why lazy production values have P-51's dropping the A-Bomb... well, OK, that one is true.

 

[pops-paolo]

I can understand (and forgive) using production footage that has already been released. Years ago, about 1995, I contacted the Library of Congress for some footage of U.S.S. Enterprise at I think Eastern Solomons showing her slewing left right and center dodging bombs and torpedo's. I don't remember the exact details but for what I believe I remember as a 5 minute VHS tape (it might have been 3 minutes) it was over $1,000.00 USD.

EEK!

So think of the production costs if you want new footage and you need 10 to 20 times the run time of what I was requesting.

OR

You could just look in the public domain for airplane/ship/tank whatever and use that for pennies if not free.

As for using correct footage, I reference a Tom Hanks interview where he was telling Major Winters that "Look, in the film you're going to do things you didn't do, say things you didn't say and normal projects like this get about 10% of the story correct. We're striving hard to break that and get maybe 12% correct" Not a perfect quote but the numbers are what he said. So 12% is striving hard? Easy to see why lazy production values have P-51's dropping the A-Bomb... well, OK, that one is true.

oh no

 

[yosimitesam]

The Constitution of the United States prohibits cruel and unusual punishment.

Correct. Let's be merciful. Instead of Tiny Tim they should be forced to listen to 24 continuous hours of Alfalfa singing 'I'm In the Mood For Love'. One of the great crooners of all time: Alfalfa - Crooning

 

[SaparotRob]

....and the Barber of Seville too.

 

[Col Campbell]

They do the same with armored vehicles.

Jim

 

[SaparotRob]

I've seen armored cars identified as tanks. It's like they don't even try.

 

[pops-paolo]

I've seen armored cars identified as tanks. It's like they don't even try.

they don't need to because the average American doesn't know any better

 

[pbehn]

By the same token I saw a documentary recently on Bletchley Park and the cracking of the Lorenz (Tunny) code, it was excellent, I have watched it three times now just to see if I could figure out WTF they are talking about (I still dont really know). The throwing together of the Lorenz code, Bill Tutte, Tommy Flowers and a German clerk who transmitted the same 4,000 character message in the same key two times makes me question coincidences. In the words of Jerry Roberts (Tutte's colleague) Tutte's work was the greatest intellectual achievement of the war and he suggested that a statue of the German clerk should be put up in Whitehall. It not only shortened the war but gave the world computers.